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Magicant - N4A Chat Thread - May 2022


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Here’s the thing about the prequel trilogy:

 

They may not have been as good as the original trilogy, and they may have had their share of problems, but there was always a clear vision for what they were supposed to be. George Lucas had a story that he wanted to tell, and he told it.

 

The sequels, on the other hand, had no such vision. Each film was basically written by the seat of their pants, with different directors having different ideas for where they wanted the story to go, resulting in a mess.

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Posted (edited)

Pretty much.

 

Is unfortunate that the fierce criticism the prequels got led to a disheartened George Lucas selling the IP before he did the sequel trilogy himself. There were a lot of problems between him and fans besides the prequels though that led to him leaving. In fact he fought fans every step of the way; making the original unedited trilogy unavailable for re-release which is nigh impossible to find now, giving The Phantom Menace another theatrical release but in 3D which no one cared for, etc.

 

 

While there's hindsight appreciation for the prequels now because nostalgia, the criticism for them when they first came out was more or less as fierce as what the sequels got. It's easier to find hate for the sequels now because of social media, but how the prequels were treated by fans when forums were still mainstream was just as severe. I remember both the original Nsider & NS2 and other forum sties often getting heated when it came to discussing the quality of the prequels, and those who even remotely liked them were usually flamed.

 

Is also unfortunate how most of the cast of the prequels and sequels ended up having a downhill career after or just took a lease from acting altogether, whether because of fans or movie critics. Star Wars is kind of a cursed movie series beyond the original trilogy, despite the other material & spinoffs it got as shows and other media to more or less make up for the disappointment of the prequel and sequel trilogies.

 

The sequels definitely did more damage though. Lucas had written of a script for that trilogy which he handed to Disney, but they only used certain details from it for the films while the rest was their own doing, which lacked a roadmap itself. This trilogy had been waited on for like 40 years too after Return of the Jedi, and with what we got from it, it makes sense to be more cynical or disheartened from it than with anything we had gotten from the series prior. The Force Awakens was liked alright enough as a start, but afterward it took a nosedive that it could never recover from.

 

 

Oh, going back to a Pokemon comparison? Well TFA still mostly took from A New Hope, which isn't dissimilar to how Pokemon started endlessly pandering to gen 1 (giving most of the Pokemon from gen 1 various new forms, etc) which was when it started going downhill for fans. Appealing to nostalgia can only go so far before it gets tiresome.

Edited by Ridley Prime
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12 hours ago, Ridley Prime said:

making the original unedited trilogy unavailable for re-release which is nigh impossible to find now

Any old Star Wars release can be easily found on eBay, but there was never any purely unedited release.  The only official home release where the original movie just says, "STAR WARS," (without, "Episode IV: A New Hope,") were the 2006 bonus discs, and those use the later sound mix cuz they just took the 1993 masters of the trilogy and spliced a 1977 opening crawl film reel to the beginning of episode 4.  And, besides, as someone who owns and is trying to get rid of that set, it's awful.  It's so zoomed out that you can barely see it.  I bought a Blu-Ray set of the despecialized trilogy that I'm a thousand times happier with, not just is the quality amazing, but it's far more accurate than any home release there's ever been of the trilogy ever, including the 2006 set.

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1 minute ago, Tyranogre said:

Clearly the correct answer is to force all women to have abortions. That way, we're both killing babies and not allowing women to have a choice. Therefore, everyone's happy.educate;

Abortions for some, miniature American flags for others!

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21 hours ago, Tyranogre said:

Would it be fair to say that Star Wars has become like Pokemon in that the "main series"* has gone to shit due to developer infighting and executive meddling, but the spinoffs and side-material are still pretty good?

 

*by which I mean the mainline theatrical films for Star Wars, and the paired video game releases for Pokemon

I was thinking about this yesterday but like... Rogue One isn't a perfect film or anything but just the fact that it doesn't have that constant Joss Whedon humour elevates it so much. I feel like these movies have so much comic relief that they're almost making fun of you if you try to take them seriously and get into the stakes of the plot lol

 

Like imagine a modern Lord of the Rings and Frodo and Sam get to the Shelob cave and they see the giant spider and they're like... is anybody else seeing this right now? or after the battle at Helm's Deep they're like well that just happened

 

I love The Last Jedi though, without that stuff it would be one of the best IMO

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It's fine if there are characters with a lot of comic relief like Spiderman and Deadpool but when every character's personality is Spiderman or Deadpool it's a huge problem lol

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22 hours ago, Ridley Prime said:

The Last Jedi still had the worst choreography by far.

 

I agree, and I think I've seen that throne room battle broken down before. Didn't one of the guards suddenly lose a weapon between frames? I couldn't compare Pokemon to anything from TLJ though, because I do still enjoy the recent Pokemon games. The best scene from TLJ inspired a scene in Star Wars: Visions in the episode "The Twins", and I felt the moment there was so much better than what I experienced in theaters because it wasn't surrounded by disappointment. 

Edited by Ithrak Utopia
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13 hours ago, Ithrak Utopia said:

 

I agree, and I think I've seen that throne room battle broken down before. Didn't one of the guards suddenly lose a weapon between frames? I couldn't compare Pokemon to anything from TLJ though, because I do still enjoy the recent Pokemon games. The best scene from TLJ inspired a scene in Star Wars: Visions in the episode "The Twins", and I felt the moment there was so much better than what I experienced in theaters because it wasn't surrounded by disappointment. 

 

Yep, one of the guards Rey was maneuvering around, their weapon just conveniently disappeared mid fight.

 

From what I just looked up of said episode of Visions, I can believe it was done better there. Also, while I normally don't care much for lego games, I have to say the recent Lego Star Wars game that covers all three trilogies did The Last Jedi much better than the film did. :P Just looking at a video of the gameplay, you get to even play as Luke while fighting off Kylo Ren during their encounter on Crait. I think that was my favorite planet aesthetically out of the sequel trilogy, despite the disappointing climax TLJ had. Anyway, they actually have a duel there where Luke can take damage and deals damage to Ren, which was how it should've been in the film.

 

Battlefront 2's story did Luke and pretty much everyone better than TLJ as well. Despite the initial controversy that game had at launch in 2017, it easily became one of my favorite Star Wars games as it got better over time with the updates, especially after its final update in 2020. Kylo Ren was probably my most played dark side character in the game aside from Grievous and Vader. Ren and all the sequel characters had good gameplay and unique abilities like everyone else, which gave me more attachment to them than I would've gotten from the films alone.

 

 

To be honest, I was already having dwindling interest in mainline Pokemon games as time went on, and definitely not $60 interested for one now. Things that happened like Dexit only made me feel I jumped ship at the right time. I'm sure I could play Pokemon Sword/Shield or any mainline game after (the Diamond/Pearl remake, etc) and enjoy some aspects of them, but why would I when there's other games and stuff out there I know I'd enjoy and come back to much more during my free time?

 

With Pokemon games though, you know what you're getting at least. I wouldn't of saw The Last Jedi in theaters if I had known it would be as bad as it was, though I think I still would've been curious enough to see it sometime after on TV. TLJ was one of the only times I had a regretful theater investment, and came out happy from TROS in comparison.

Edited by Ridley Prime
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honestly still wanna play sun and moon cause the characters are all so cute but i didn't have my 3ds any more when it came out
none of the others have interested me too much really. felt like i got everything i wanted out of the first 5 though otherwise

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So I just beat FC, and there was one part of the ending I didn't get:

 

Spoiler

Joshua gave Estelle that roofie via a mouth-to-mouth kiss, correct? But if the drug was already in Joshua's mouth to begin with, shouldn't he have also knocked himself unconscious?

 

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