Doc Brown Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, nornir said: she won the popular vote by millions of votes so they obviously weren't sinister enough and the US has overthrown like dozens of governments and probably hacks the shit out of russia too so it's just like nah lol Thing is, a lot of us aren't naive to it. We learned about it in school. Heck almost every nation has done it one way or another over time. No nation is innocent. So 'American Exceptionalism' is a farce. To try to lay the blame on it entirely would be letting other nations off the hook. Quote Link to comment
Sheri Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 (edited) Yeah, Russia is just being better at doing what America already does. I'm not angry at them. If this was America interfering in Russia, Hilliary would have been all in for it and even if it leaked the public, ain't nobody bat an eyelash. Let them taste their own bitter medicine. Also, Hiliray a shit, let's be real. Edited December 11, 2016 by Sheri Quote Link to comment
Doc Brown Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Just now, Sheri said: Yeah, Russia is just being better at doing what America already does. I'm not angry at them. If this was America interfering in Russia, Hilliary would have been all in for it. Let them taste their own bitter medicine. Also, Hiliray a shit, let's be real. Oh hell, I am. People's rights are at stake. Sorry not sorry, Russia. Who are you to say she'd be in? You're not her. No one is. Wow. Here's the thing, we'll all be tasting it. Right or wrong. No, that would be Drumpf. Hillary is NO angel, but Drumpf is far worse. Quote Link to comment
bel Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 10 minutes ago, Lance's Dragonite said: Wow. I have nothing to say here on this. Yes the US has done so. And I don't excuse them for doing so either. A lot of times it was for oil too. Faux outrage? No it's not. People have every right to be very concerned on this. Have you even checked to see who Drumpf is putting into the cabinet? One of them, Rex Tillerson, has deep ties to Russia. Another article about him. And another. I don't think Russia being on friendly terms with America is necessarily even a bad thing. What worries me a million times more about his cabinet appointments is that they're his billionaire friends or crazy right wingers that are being put in charge of government institutions that they don't believe in and want to see dismantled. That's way less abstract than some nebulous Russian threat. It's like Cold War level discourse that you'd normally expect from conservatives and not the other way around. The Russia thing and daily outrage over Trump's tweets is just liberal pearl clutching at things that don't matter, while ignoring the things that do matter. It's so backwards. Sheri 1 Quote Link to comment
Young P Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 4 minutes ago, nornir said: she won the popular vote by millions of votes so they obviously weren't sinister enough and the US has overthrown like dozens of governments and probably hacks the shit out of russia too so it's just like nah lol I don't know what this has to do with what I said though. American exceptionalism is not something I believe in nor is it relevant to what we're talking about. The president-elect is a Russian pawn, and this is a bad thing regardless of whatever manipulation the US is guilty of. Doc Brown 1 Quote Link to comment
Sheri Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Just because Trump is worse doesn't suddenly make Hilliary look better in anyway. Hilliary's only claim to fame for the entire election is that she was a step above Trump, but Trump is far past rock bottom it doesn't matter. Hilliary couldn't handle losing to a black man twice, so she had to try again and fucked everything up. If Hilliary never ran, Trump wouldn't have won. Period. Quote Link to comment
Doc Brown Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, nornir said: I don't think Russia being on friendly terms with America is necessarily even a bad thing. What worries me a million times more about his cabinet appointments is that they're his billionaire friends or crazy right wingers that are being put in charge of government institutions that they don't believe in and want to see dismantled. That's way less abstract than some nebulous Russian threat. It's like Cold War level discourse that you'd normally expect from conservatives and not the other way around. The Russia thing and daily outrage over Drumpf's tweets is just liberal pearl clutching at things that don't matter, while ignoring the things that do matter. It's so backwards. I do. Any nice behavior towards the US from them I take with a huge grain of salt. Especially given Putin. He's a former member of the KGB and that's not a good thing. That worries me just as much for what it's worth. But to not take the Russian threat seriously would be a mistake as well in my opinion. Have you even read up what he's done to his own country as president? It's beyond shameful. Well this isn't normal times by a long shot. Don't even go there. It's not backwards. It's the situation where it stands now. So agree to disagree on it. Edited December 11, 2016 by Lance's Dragonite Quote Link to comment
Young P Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 (edited) What on earth does losing to a black man have to do with anything? Edited December 11, 2016 by Young P Doc Brown 1 Quote Link to comment
Sheri Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Also, Trump being a Russian pawn is a beautiful thing. USA obviously and unsubtly interferes with the politics of other sovereign nations all the time, but if someone wants to do the same to big brother 'Murica, it's time for outrage. "It's okay when I do it to others, but not when others do it to me." Nah mate. America got what it deserved. Quote Link to comment
Doc Brown Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 3 minutes ago, Sheri said: Just because Trump is worse doesn't suddenly make Hilliary look better in anyway. Hilliary's only claim to fame for the entire election is that she was a step above Trump, but Trump is far past rock bottom it doesn't matter. Hilliary couldn't handle losing to a black man twice, so she had to try again and fucked everything up. If Hilliary never ran, Trump wouldn't have won. Period. Agree to disagree on that. I don't like Hillary that much, but I don't consider her to be terrible. Just status quo. Quote Link to comment
bel Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 And are we going just by the CIA now? "Iraq has WMDs","enhanced interrogation techniques", Bay of Pigs, let's dope unwitting people up on LSD in mind control experiments, that CIA? nah Sheri 1 Quote Link to comment
Young P Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Sheri said: Also, Trump being a Russian pawn is a beautiful thing. USA obviously and unsubtly interferes with the politics of other sovereign nations all the time, but if someone wants to do the same to big brother 'Murica, it's time for outrage. "It's okay when I do it to others, but not when others do it to me." Nah mate. America got what it deserved. When did anyone say it is okay when America does it? Doc Brown 1 Quote Link to comment
Doc Brown Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Sheri said: Also, Trump being a Russian pawn is a beautiful thing. USA obviously and unsubtly interferes with the politics of other sovereign nations all the time, but if someone wants to do the same to big brother 'Murica, it's time for outrage. "It's okay when I do it to others, but not when others do it to me." Nah mate. America got what it deserved. Nice try. Have fun under the new regime . No. Again, I don't excuse what they've done either. So you're saying people shouldn't fight back? Here's the thing, people HAVE a RIGHT to do so. They've done it in other countries, including ones that the US was involved in. Any time this happens, it's not good. And it's happened by other countries over the years apart from the US. The US didn't invent it. So once again, agree to disagree. Edited December 11, 2016 by Lance's Dragonite Quote Link to comment
Sheri Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Just now, nornir said: And are we going just by the CIA now? "Iraq has WMDs","enhanced interrogation techniques", Bay of Pigs, let's dope unwitting people up on LSD in mind control experiments, that CIA? nah With you on that. Don't wanna be like Trump where he goes after the CIA when they said Russia has been fucking around, but at the same time, CIA ain't exactly somebody I trust even during the best of times. Quote Link to comment
Doc Brown Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Young P said: When did anyone say it is okay when America does it? ^ This. @to the others: We didn't say that. We don't excuse their behavior. So don't twist our words to suit your narrative. Have fun with your little circle jerk. I'm out. Edited December 11, 2016 by Lance's Dragonite Quote Link to comment
Sheri Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 1 minute ago, Young P said: When did anyone say it is okay when America does it? No one said it's okay for America to do it, but no one says it's not okay for America to do it. Like I said, America's been dicking around with sovereign nations for decades, but no one even mentions it and when it gets brought up, no one bats an eye lash. The most you'd usually get is "Well, that's not very chill at them." But someone allegedly does it to America, with the source of that information being the most untrustworthy and morally corrupt institution in America in the best of times outside of the GOP? Full. Outrage. Nah mate, I don't buy it. World politics is a game, and Russia is playing by the same rules America does. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Quote Link to comment
bel Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 2 minutes ago, Young P said: When did anyone say it is okay when America does it? The point is that liberals will look the other way when it's about the American world hegemony, but if Russia starts pushing their geopolitical influence it's like THE GLOVES ARE OFF NOW, HOW DARE YOU DO THAT THING THAT WE ALSO DO It's so cynical and ironic especially since even if the hack was true it's so much less sinister than anything America does They just aired the DNC's dirty laundry, if that's it then that's like... okay... lol Sheri 1 Quote Link to comment
Young P Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 10 minutes ago, Sheri said: No one said it's okay for America to do it, but no one says it's not okay for America to do it. Like I said, America's been dicking around with sovereign nations for decades, but no one even mentions it and when it gets brought up, no one bats an eye lash. The most you'd usually get is "Well, that's not very chill at them." But someone allegedly does it to America, with the source of that information being the most untrustworthy and morally corrupt institution in America in the best of times outside of the GOP? Full. Outrage. Nah mate, I don't buy it. World politics is a game, and Russia is playing by the same rules America does. Don't hate the player, hate the game. Then what is the correct reaction if not outrage? It may be hypocritical, sure, but two wrongs don't make a right. We can't afford to brush it off when American intelligence tells us we're being manipulated. For what it's worth, I get the inclination to be skeptical because the CIA but this is also feeding into the sense of distrust that Trump wants. He wants us to assume all information is false unless it's coming from/approved by him. And if we're telling each other not to bother with this because the CIA is probably lying, I feel like he's already controlling the narrative. Let me put it this way: if Trump says someone is lying, whatever they're saying is probably at least partially true. Quote Link to comment
Young P Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 10 minutes ago, nornir said: The point is that liberals will look the other way when it's about the American world hegemony, but if Russia starts pushing their geopolitical influence it's like THE GLOVES ARE OFF NOW, HOW DARE YOU DO THAT THING THAT WE ALSO DO It's so cynical and ironic especially since even if the hack was true it's so much less sinister than anything America does They just aired the DNC's dirty laundry, if that's it then that's like... okay... lol Okay, but apart from pointing out people being hypocrites (which is frankly not surprising because Americans caring more about American politics than foreign politics is not news) why would you criticize people for being outraged about this? I think anybody who knows anything about Putin has good reason to be alarmed. Quote Link to comment
bel Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 It kind of reminds me of those right wing conspiracy theories when Obama got elected about him being a manchurian candidate that's going to turn the US into an islamofascist state and throw everybody in the fema camps Spoiler Quote Link to comment
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