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Donald Trump elected 45th President of the United States


Chrom

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6 minutes ago, Sir Grim Locksmith VIII said:

I was once told that the most important person in your life is yourself. What's not to say that being a little selfish is a good thing? You're not an asshole if you just want to mind your business. We can only do so much for the disadvantaged before we begin to give out ourselves. That's not to say we should succumb to a dog-eat-dog society. No, far from that. And that's not to say we should simply ignore the disadvantaged. Hell, that's what made the Holocaust and Apartheid and Segregation possible. 

 

I'm just saying that someone isn't a piece of shit if they decide not to partake in a peaceful protest, donate to charity, or apologize on behalf of a morally bankrupt ideology that happens to share a similar skin color. 

 

I'm sorry Mao. I really am. You bring up good points, and our argument from two nights ago certainly cleared my head a bit, but I can't prevent myself from calling you out on this...whatever the hell this is. 

Being a little selfish is fine. Selfish to the point that your actions bring harm to millions of people is another thing.

 

If you don't protest, or donate or apologize for the actions of other people in your race. Fine, that's selfish. And I can call you selfish for doing that. Because a little selfish, or a lot selfish are still the same thing. Really, all you have to do is speak up when you see or hear something that's degrading to POC. 

 

Read this, this is what I want you to do: 

 

Edited by Mao
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5 minutes ago, Mao said:

If you don't protest, or donate or apologize for the actions of other people in your race. Fine, that's selfish.

Uhhhhhhh... yeah, no. I'm not responsible for people who share the same skin color as me. Believing everyone who isn't white is entitled an apology from everyone who is is not only ludicrous, it's what repels more moderate people from your rhetoric in the first place.

 

As for protest, I'll gladly take to doing that as soon as the administration starts enacting hateful policies. Until then? Nope.

 

8 minutes ago, nipple said:

The other would have my children fight in endless foreign wars and could very well ensure we all end up as nuclear bbq.  The choice was obvious.

The real nipple would be fine with this, because it's a citizen's duty to go to war for their government. It's the least they can do!

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4 minutes ago, darkloli99 said:

Uhhhhhhh... yeah, no. I'm not responsible for people who share the same skin color as me. Believing everyone who isn't white is entitled an apology from everyone who is is not only ludicrous, it's what repels more moderate people from your rhetoric in the first place.

 

As for protest, I'll gladly take to doing that as soon as the administration starts enacting hateful policies. Until then? Nope.

You are entitled to go to work for POC if you're white if you care at all. An apology is empty words and is useless. Something far more useful is to do what I linked in my tweet.

 

Alright, cool, you can do that when it's too late. If a policy is enacted it's way too late for protests because now the government has to enforce it. Protests are a way to let the government know you don't like something before something is going to happen. The anti Trump protests specifically are just people saying to the government that they're not going to let Trump enact those hateful policies he promised.

Edited by Mao
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11 minutes ago, Mao said:

You are entitled to go to work for POC if you're white if you care at all. An apology is empty words and is useless. Something far more useful is to do what I linked in my tweet.

 

Alright, cool, you can do that when it's too late. If a policy is enacted it's way too late for protests because now the government has to enforce it. Protests are a way to let the government know you don't like something before something is going to happen. The anti Trump protests specifically are just people saying to the government that they're not going to let Trump enact those hateful policies he promised.

Sorry, but if you're riding that ticket, everyone on this planet is a selfish sack of shit for the total lack of compassion expressed toward millions of impoverished people the world over. Just because I'm white doesn't mean I have money to throw to every cause that needs it. As for the moral crusade, I live in SoCal. I socialize with a pretty large number of people from all kinds of ethnic backgrounds, and I don't know a single one that voted for Trump. Nor am I going to assume that everyone who voted for him is some out-of-touch bigot like you seem determined to do. Not much I can do for you there.

 

"Start enacting", as in the moment real steps are taken to make such policies beyond the myriad of things spouted out on the campaign trail. I do condone most of the protesting I've seen, but until Trump proves he's more than just an arrogant inconsiderate blowhard, I'll be twiddling my thumbs. Sorry.

Edited by darkloli99
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31 minutes ago, Mao said:

Being a little selfish is fine. Selfish to the point that your actions bring harm to millions of people is another thing.

 

If you don't protest, or donate or apologize for the actions of other people in your race have done. Fine, that's selfish. And I can call you selfish for doing that. Because a little selfish, or a lot selfish are still the same thing. Really, all you have to do is speak up when you see or hear something that's degrading to POC. 

 

Read this, this is what I want you to do: 

 

Then I'd rather be called a selfish prick who believes in tolerance. 

 

Though I thank you for providing me with that list. If I somehow muster up the money I might donate. 

Edited by Sir Grim Locksmith VIII
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Eh, I'm gonna have to disagree with the white guilt thing.

 

I don't want people feeling bad about something their fore-fathers did. But they need to understand that they are not only still actively benefiting from that, but people are still being actively hurt by it. The biggest problem with white people in this country is their refusal to admit that's there even a problem.

 

Not everyone needs to be a political warrior, but by god, they shouldn't just sit down and let all this shit happen uncontested. I don't think more people need to actively stand up for the rights of minorities, as much as they need to stop sitting down on the rights of minorities and then pretend that they aren't.

 

Their gain is coming from our pain, and they don't wanna own up to that. That's the problem.

 

 

Your dead on about the protests, though. A lot easier and more prudent to stop something from happening, than it is to try and undo it.

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9 minutes ago, darkloli99 said:

Sorry, but if you're riding that ticket, everyone on this planet is a selfish sack of shit for the total lack of compassion expressed toward millions of impoverished people the world over. Just because I'm white doesn't mean I have money to throw to every cause that needs it. As for the moral crusade, I live in SoCal. I socialize with a pretty large number of people from all kinds of ethnic backgrounds, and I don't know a single one that voted for Trump. Not much I can do for you there.

 

"Start enacting", as in the moment real steps are taken to make such policies beyond the myriad of things spouted out on the campaign trail. I do condone most of the protesting I've seen, but until Trump proves he's more than just an arrogant inconsiderate blowhard, I'll be twiddling my thumbs. Sorry.

We're keeping this discussion to American social issues thanks. We can talk about how much Americans as a whole are selfish pieces of shit later. Nothing that's in that thread of tweets requires money except donating but they state a whole bunch of other things you can still do if you can't do that. If you don't encounter any of that in your life, great, you don't have to do anything, you're very lucky. But the rest of us who do happen to see and hear racist actions and conversations all the time have a duty to step in and stop it.

 

Sure, you can twiddle your thumbs. You can do nothing for people even though you could. I mean, if you truly do live in the only part of America free from racism, kudos for being so lucky, but I have a hard time believing that there's never been an instance in your life that you haven't seen or heard something racist that you could have stepped into and deescalate.  

Edited by Mao
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3 minutes ago, Sir Grim Locksmith VIII said:

Then I'd rather be called a selfish prick who believes in tolerance. 

 

Being intolerant of people who are, at the very least, throwing you under the bus for their own personal gain is not a bad thing, holy shit. Get off that high horse, son.

 

Being intolerant of intolerance doesn't make you "the same as them".

 

 

It's this shit that people don't understand why the rest of the world sneers at America. It's this shit that lead to Dem losing today, because where as Republicans bullied and stalled and walled everything Dems tried to do for years, Dem still tried to "take the high road" and compromise.

 

 

"Oh, they didn't mean this. Oh, they didn't want this. Oh, they didn't intend for this." None of that shit matter when the end result is the same. They might get a free pass the first few times, but when they KEEP DOING IT, I'm sorry if I find it hard to sympathize with their motives and plights. At the very least, they are showing an absolute incapability of comprehending the consequences of their actions.

 

 

Even if it's an accident every single time, someone can only step on your toes so many times before you start getting really pissed.

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2 minutes ago, Mao said:

We're keeping this discussion to American social issues thanks. We can talk about how much Americans as a whole are selfish pieces of shit later. Nothing that's in that thread of tweets requires money except donating which they state a whole bunch of other things you can still do if you can't do that because you don't have money. If you don't encounter any of that in your life, great, you don't have to do anything, you're very lucky. But the rest of us who do happen to see and hear racist actions and conversations all the time have a duty to step in and stop it.

 

Sure, you can do twiddle your thumbs. You can do nothing for people even though you could. I mean, if you truly do live in the only part of America free from racism, kudos for being so lucky, but I have a hard time believing that there's never been an instance in your life that you haven't seen or heard something racist that you could have stepped into and deescalate.  

Oh no, I've seen instances of racism (and being that I've attended schools where I wasn't part of the majority, even been a victim of it!) and I'm not remotely okay with it. I have gotten my ass beat for standing up for this bullied Bolivian kid I knew, and I'd do it again. The thing is, I'm not going to classify 'a vote for Trump' anywhere close to that magnitude of discrimination. I might ask them why they did it, but unless their reasoning condones xenophobia, I'm not going to chastise them for it. There're plenty of other things that have motivated voters to pick him. And 'he isn't Clinton' was just as valid a reason as 'she isn't Trump'.

 

I'm not trying to say that a vote for Trump isn't at least a little bit dismissive of some real concerns within numerous marginalized communities, but the egregiousness of that act isn't so black and white that it requires some long-winded pontification at everyone who voted Trump. Even if many of them legitimately do need it.

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I personally don't think we need more "active" allies as much as we need to people to stop getting in the way, even unintentionally. But people don't want to listen when you try to tell them how they're getting in the way.

 

I will say, having more out spoken allies is always a good thing, but I don't want people to feel bad and guilt dripped into being one. I'm very much don't think it's the responsibility of every individual to bear that burden. If they want to just mind themselves and their own problems, that's perfectly fine.

 

But there are sometimes I do think it should be expected. I don't expect them to speak up against their racist family members, but if you see someone being harassed and you do nothing, you made the world worse that day. Even I, a dark skinned immigrant, when I hear people going "man, all those black people just needed to co-operate" am I like, "Man, I just ain't dealing with this." But if I saw someone pulling a Muslim women head-dress off, you bet your ass I'd do something.

 

People need to own up to the fact that, choosing to do nothing is still making a choice that has consequences. We've been trying to teach kids this since school, but some how they still don't get it. Most extreme cases of bullying only happens because no one did anything.

 

I remember I saw this show where they had a guy pretend to spike a girls drinks, and people saw it and talked amongst themselves about how wrong and messed up that is, but did nothing. They didn't want to be "confrontational". They let that women be raped. They are, in part, responsible for what they thought how it was gonna play out.

 

 

Not everyone needs to be out on a corner, protesting  forcivil rights, not everyone needs to be out screaming down racists, ect. Would that be great? Yeah, but this a huge world and I'm don't expect everyone or even judge them for not wanting to be soliders in every civil cause ever. But there's a big different between just being concerned with yourself and letting something happen, that that line isn't exactly subtle.

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I agree with the idea that you don't have to be a political warrior.  The simple fact is that everybody only has so much real estate for empathy, and not everybody is cut out for social activism.  Overexposure to the media and the discussion surrounding it only breeds apathy or contempt to the unprepared.  Hell, there are people I know who care about social activism and I think they honestly aren't helping the problems anymore, and present from this election the apathy and contempt has set in for many people.  There are people in this thread who want to remain involved in social and political platforms but they don't have the capacity to empathize with causes that are important to people.  Objectivity and "facts" sound nice on paper, but the Catch-22 is that those definitions will vary wildly due to exposure, morality, and personal experience.  You can't make a white person believe shit about racial issues unless there's literally a klansman beating the hell out of a minority talking about how much he hates niggers.  The concept of subtle or institutionalized discrimination doesn't exist to them because they're incapable of empathizing on that basic level.

 

When it comes to asking us to empathize, the question has to be asked: what is enough?  It's a nebulous concept to evaluate, but the only thing we know is that however much we're giving now, it isn't enough because these problems keep getting worse.  But when you're dealing with people like the K-On Cuckservative or darling cirrhosis, the question of empathy shouldn't be the quantity they should be giving, it's HOW TO because they've displayed they're incapable of it.

And that has always been the problem.  It's not enough to ask to what extent do you want to help LGBT+, women, and PoC.  Because that extent is "little to none", we already know the answer to that.  The question we have to ask is HOW we make these people care.

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6 minutes ago, darkloli99 said:

The thing is, I'm not going to classify 'a vote for Trump' anywhere close to that magnitude of discrimination. I might ask them why they did it, but unless their reasoning condones xenophobia, I'm not going to chastise them for it. There're plenty of other things that have motivated voters to pick him. And 'he isn't Clinton' was just as valid a reason as 'she isn't Trump'.

 

I'm not trying to say that a vote for Trump isn't at least a little bit dismissive of some real concerns within numerous marginalized communities, but the egregiousness of that act isn't so black and white that it requires some long-winded pontification at everyone who voted Trump. Even if many of them legitimately do need it.

Can't you just go back and read the thread where we already covered this topic. They may not have voted Trump because of racism/sexism/homophobia etc, but the vote for him did enable all of that. Pence being the VP guarantees things are going to be difficult for the LGBT+ crowd especially. Pence being in charge of picking replacements for the transitions guarantees there are going to be a lot of people in upper office positions that are going to be homophobic. POC are also guaranteed to be in for a rough time when all of these people are supportive of our police institutions and seem to have no real concern to change anything in that department.

The act is very egregious to us who are going to be very affected by the outcome. Using the reason "well Russia might nuke us" is a poor excuse to toss all the rights and progress we've made in the last 8 years in terms of social issues out the window and is not justified.

Edited by Mao
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6 minutes ago, Mao said:

Can't you just go back and read the thread where we already covered this topic. They may not have voted Trump because of racism/sexism/homophobia etc, but the vote for him did enable all of that. Pence being the VP guarantees things are going to be difficult for the LGBT+ crowd especially. Pence being in charge of picking replacements for the transitions guarantees there are going to be a lot of people in upper office positions that are going to be homophobic. POC are also guaranteed to be in for a rough time when all of these people are supportive of our police institutions and seem to have no real concern to change anything in that department.

The act is very egregious to us who are going to be very affected by the outcome. Using the reason "well Russia might nuke us" is a poor excuse to toss all the rights and progress we've made in the last 8 years in terms of social issues out the window and is not justified.

And when that happens, I'll be chewing on my hat and eating my white privilege. But I'm still not going to rebuke someone for believing that, for instance, the chance of nuclear war with Russia is the greater evil than the chance of Trump taking away gay marriage or abortion. You may think that the latter is a far more likely scenario, but some people don't, and until we get some real proof in the pudding, I'm not giving them shit for that.

 

I know it's the fact that I'm a white cis male that I get to bide my time on it rather than going into full panic mode. Is that enough of an acknowledgement of my privilege for you? Probably not, given that I'm still throwing over half of my friends under the bus by taking this approach, apparently. So just ignore and ostracize me if it makes you feel better and prevents me from 'getting in the way'.

 

 

also i wanted clinton to win lol

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