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Donald Trump elected 45th President of the United States


Chrom

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Freedom of speech isn't just a law, but an idea and a culture.

 

It's there for a reason, after all. Ideas should be debated and censorship will not have the result you want.

 

You're not criminal if, as just a citizen, you try to silence those who oppose you... unless you try to silence them with force. But you clearly don't care about free speech, either way.

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I truly do believe there's a sizeable population in this country, hell maybe the world that unconsciously wants fascism. They're literally voting away their rights for some temporary security. Security from scary terrorists, immigrants, whatever. The need for 'strong leadership, industry, law and order' - you know all the same bullshit that allowed the Nazis to get power. History is repeating here but this time we have weapons that can destroy the entire world in a few minutes.

 

 

 

Good times

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33 minutes ago, Jon Mess said:

The last statement might not be too far off. Half of the US voters surely can't be the terrible, racist and sexist people Trump supporters are being made out to be. 

Honestly some of them didn't even LIKE Trump but were pushed to his side out of fear of Hillary.

If anybody but hillary was chosen to run for the presidency this would have been a landslide election but the dnc just had to screw themselves over.. *sigh*..

Either way both sides here are being stupid. The trump worshippers are ignorant and the "OMG CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE WHITE CIS SCUM >=O" peeps(and i say this as someone who does indeed fall under the LGBT label and is absolutely sick and tired of sjws) are being facepalm worthy extremists who are looking just like the conservative extremists they claim to oppose but merely wearing a different mask. Hatred only begets more hatred and it never ends unless someone decides to stop the cycle of flipping out.

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24 minutes ago, Zeldaru said:

It's a matter of perspective -- opening up with why "bigotry is bad" will not necessarily be beneficial, because it's such an obvious truism to most people. It is more important to explain how, through systems of oppression, which again are not at the individual level, lead to disproportionate outcomes for nonprivileged groups (anyone not cis, white, straight, middle class or higher, and able-bodied). It's not through individuals being outright bigoted, usually. That does not excuse not trying to improve your own understanding of systems of oppression as an individual, though.

But I don't see how that will change their views because then their prejudices will make them think the disproportionate outcomes are somehow justified. They won't give a damn, that's to say.

 

19 minutes ago, Mao said:

Mmm, yeah, I really have no issues with taking away the freedom of speech away from people who preach racism and fascism. 

 

Please tell me what of value we're losing by silencing those sorts of thoughts and ideologies. 

Because then we'll prove that we failed to uphold the democratic principles our Founding Fathers fought to establish. Sure, what they're saying is just fucking disgusting, but once we forcefully silence them, we start to travel down the same path we tried to destroy, repaving it to be some sort of twisted parallel, but a parallel nonetheless.

 

Just like what the comic that Yuki posted said, we can ostracize and criticize the shit out of those bigots, but we can't deny them the right to be bigots. That is, as long as they don't put others in danger. The moment they decide to lay a finger on a minority is the moment it becomes open season on their ass. 

Edited by Sir Grim Locksmith VIII
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3 minutes ago, SleuthMechanism said:

Honestly some of them didn't even LIKE Trump but were pushed to his side out of fear of Hillary.

If anybody but hillary was chosen to run for the presidency this would have been a landslide election but the dnc just had to screw themselves over.. *sigh*..

Either way both sides here are being stupid. The trump worshippers are ignorant and the "OMG CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE WHITE CIS SCUM >=O" peeps(and i say this as someone who does indeed fall under the LGBT label and is absolutely sick and tired of sjws) are being facepalm worthy extremists who are looking just like the conservative extremists they claim to oppose but merely wearing a different mask. Hatred only begets more hatred and it never ends unless someone decides to stop the cycle of flipping out.

lol

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As someone who knows so little about politics that my only post in the previous thread was a porn joke, I'm legitimately curious: why don't we just have another civil war?

 

As Iri brought up in the chat thread, the electoral college means that people who try to escape oppression by moving to a blue state will only make it more difficult for the democrats to win the battleground states in the next election. But by splitting off from the rest of the country and forming our own "confederacy", we will no longer be bound by whatever policies Trump tries to pass. If he wants to deport Mexicans or Muslims or deny gays the right to get married, then they can all come to California or another blue state where they'll be welcome. Plus, that also means that the racists and homophobes won't have minorities living in "their country" anymore, so they'll be free to just wallow in their own shit. Therefore, everyone's happy.

 

Now, tell me how terrible my idea is and why I should feel bad.

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4 minutes ago, Sir Grim Locksmith VIII said:

But I don't see how that will change their views because then their prejudices will make them think the disproportionate outcomes are somehow justified. They won't give a damn, that's to say.

 

Because then we'll prove that we failed to uphold the democratic principles our Founding Fathers fought to establish. Sure, what they're saying is just fucking disgusting, but once we forcefully silence them, we start to travel down the same path we tried to destroy, repaving it to be some sort of twisted parallel, but a parallel nonetheless.

 

Just like what the comic that Yuki posted said, we can ostracize and criticize the shit out of those bigots, but we can't deny them the right to be bigots. That is, as long as they don't put others in danger. The moment they decide to lay a finger on a minority is the moment it becomes open season on their ass. 

you honestly think protecting their right to preach their shit is going to stop them from picking up a gun and acting on that ideology? Dylann Roof anyone? They have already demonstrated mass violence against people, when exactly is it enough to become open season?

 

Freedom of speech is a law. But it's important for society to dictate which ideals should be allowed to persist. Racism and fascism should both be killed, people who speak in racist and fascist terms should be silenced. It's really hard to not see why if you just look at it from a perspective that belongs to a minority group.

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You're free to express whatever opinion you want.

 

There are limits, however.

 

If what you are saying is legitimately hateful or harmful, you have crossed the line and I no longer have an issue with you being shut down.

More over, as Munroe helpfully pointed out, free speech doesn't protect you from the consequences.

 

1 minute ago, Tyranogre said:

I'm legitimately curious: why don't we just have another civil war?

 

Well, the first answer that immediately jumps to mind is: Nobody wants it to get to that point. With modern military technology, that would be a fucking bloodbath.

 

If you're curious about the actual legality of secession:

 

 

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Wait, Trump's in the WWE Hall of Fame... 

 

If he comes back, I wonder if he'll get more boos than another certain wrestler... 

 

The again, it seems legit heels have been a little babyface nowadays, so... eh.  

 

... If you're wondering... 

 

 

 

Also, at one point, maybe Wrestlemania 32, the crowd was booing a lot, but was muted because WWE couldn't handle Roman being booed.  

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3 minutes ago, Mao said:

you honestly think protecting their right to preach their shit is going to stop them from picking up a gun and acting on that ideology? Dylann Roof anyone? They have already demonstrated mass violence against people, when exactly is it enough to become open season?

 

Freedom of speech is a law. But it's important for society to dictate which ideals should be allowed to persist. Racism and fascism should both be killed, people who speak in racist and fascist terms should be silenced. It's really hard to not see why if you just look at it from a perspective that belongs to a minority group.

No because even if they are morally fucked up they aren't necessarily dumb or mentally deranged enough to get themselves arrested and sentenced to death, with Ross being an exception. But you do raise a valid point regarding how far we're willing to go before we draw the line. Unfortunately I don't have a concrete answer to that. Though if they actively preach death threats and lynching then we should definitely be ready to jump them.

 

Okay, I may have misunderstood your implementation of silencing them. In that case, yes, I do agree that it's up to the people and not the law to silence them in that regard. 

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the states that cost clinton the election were won by bernie in the primary.  HAHA HAHA HAHAHAHAHA HA HAHAAHAHA

 

bernie would have crushed trump but the dnc HAHAHAHAA HAHAHA HHA HAHAHAHA HA THE DNC RIGGED IT FOR HILLARY!! HAHAHAHA HAHA

 

AND THE POLLS HAHAHA the polls had those states michigan and wisconsin going to hillary easily HAHAHAHAH HAHA

 

HAHAHAH

 

HAHAHAHHAAH

HAHAHAH HA HHHHA AAAAAAA HAHA 

 

AND FOR UNDERMINING DEMOCRACY THEY GET TRUMP INSTEAD HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHAHAHA GET FUCKED DNC YOU STUPID IDIOTS

 

HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHAA

 

hubris did her in HAHAAHA HAHA HAHAH HAHAHA HAHA HA 

 

AND HE TWISTS THE KNIFE BY TAKING PENNSYLVANIA TOO HAHHAHAHA HAHAHA HAHA OH SHIT

 

I CANT STOP LAUGHING DEMS YOU DUMB FUCKS YOU DID THIS TO YOURSELVES 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Mao said:

This is another difficult post. I've spent most today sick with worry, stress, anxiety and fear. I'm not typically that kind of person at all. I've always been someone who could figure out the next move and roll with punches that are thrown at me. What happened last night has shaken me badly, and it's made me realize a lot of things about the country and the people who live here. I know a lot of people who are saying we need to be empathetic for Trump supporters. That being hateful and disgusted with them does little to heal the country. That might be true. 

 

But it doesn't matter anymore. Healing the country is not my goal anymore. Surviving is. I can be sympathetic for the voters who felt like they needed a president to get jobs and to renew their local economies again. But they've thrown so many marginalized groups under the bus to do so. And they've destroyed their image for me. I've spent all of today with the face of Edward Sotomayor in my head. You may not know who that it is, but you will in a moment. But before that I have to tell you that Edward was a friend of mine. One of my friends here in Vegas runs a gay travel agency, where he helps gay people find travel destinations to places that are safe for gay people. This friend introduced me to Edward, who he had worked with when he lived in Florida. Edward was an awesome guy, incredibly fun to talk to, and he loved to travel and was great when you need help with travel plans. Edward lived in Orlando and he was killed at Pulse. It was stunning to me to be immediately affected by something like that. I've never been affected by true terror until then. 

 

But even after Orlando and Pulse, I thought to myself, the odds of that happening to me or someone else close to me are incredibly low. The country is not at a point where maniacs are going to feel emboldened enough to do something like again anytime soon. 

 

I was so stupid. 

 

This election is forcing me to assume that anybody who voted for Trump is capable of taking a gun into any LGBT+ club or event and shooting the place up. People who have voted for a monster on every level have forced people in minorities to go into survival mode. To tell those people they need to start loving and be understanding towards people who have enabled this nightmare to crash down heavily on them is blistering offensive. What did love and understanding of people who opposed his lifestyle do for Edward? How am I supposed to trust anybody who would put their name down next to a person who has a running mate devoted to ending marriage equality and jailing people who are gay? How can you ask me to assume the best of those people and to not fear them immensely? If I were to do that in the wrong place at the wrong time, I'll die. 

 

I know there were a lot of Trump supporters who were desperate for anything to have their jobs back. I'm not so blind as to not realize they had legitimate problems with the government, but by putting the man who has enabled so many hate groups to speak up again in support of him they have made it impossible for people in minority groups to feel safe around them. That's why there's hatred. That's why there's a complete unwillingness to accept these people as people. Because doing something like that is how you get killed.

just gonna quote this again because it feels like people don't read

 

thank you mao for being one of the only sane people

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I'm not sure how appropriate it is yet, but I was watching some clips from Colbert's show (Mao posted one on his twitter, and I watched a couple more).  I appreciate Colbert's ability to bring levity to a dire situation, although it doesn't really get close to healing the disgust I feel.  I mostly just wanted to comment on one thing from this monologue:

 

 

I enjoy Stephen's monologue here for what it is, but one point I'd disagree with is that...  He makes the statement that "America is like a family, and you're in it whether you like it or not".  No...family is not necessarily an absolutely binding thing.  There are lines that can be crossed.  There is a point where you can realize you're better off without a destructive influence in your life.  There is a point where you can say "You know what, this person is a deplorable™ piece of shit, they're not worth my time, they're not worth consideration."  Individuals might place that line at different points.  But there is a line.  Someone, or even a good chunk of the family, crossing the line might lead you to leave the family, or just lose any bond you have with them.  It happens.

Like I said, I think Colbert is funny, but this is one bit of the segment that broke my immersion*.  (Not sure if immersion is the right word, but you get what I mean.)

I remember as a grade schooler, we had a music class where we would sing various songs.  One of the songs, as corny as it is, was...I forget the title but..."God bless America, where at least I know I'm free~".  And you know, as a kid, singing that, not knowing anything else, you might get the patriotism tingles or whatever.  For me, at this point, that's entirely gone.  I don't have that anymore.  I look back at 2nd grade me like "You poor, innocent child, you don't even fucking know."

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