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Male Birth Control


luigitornado

Male Birth Control  

26 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you take male birth control?

    • Yes
      10
    • No
      4
    • Maybe
      6
    • I'm a woman.
      6


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You kinda were wrong though when you said it wouldn't affect gay people. if a cis guy hooked up with a trans guy, they would have to worry about birth control. Either the trans man would be taking female birth control, or the cis guy would have to take male birth control if it becomes viable. 

 

Being gay does not exclude you from the conversation because you can still deal with pregnancy if you're gay because of trans and non binary people.

Edited by Mao
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I was under the impression that the Attack Helicopter thing was making fun of people who identify as non-binary genders, not people who are transgendered? Someone can clearly identify as a male or a female, even if it is not in alignment with their physical sex, because we have unfortunately developed millennia of societal expectations centered around the roles these genders are supposed to play. However, no such societal expectations have developed around additional genders -- and as consequence, there is no basis for what exactly those genders require to be "legitimate". Thus the strawman of identifying as an attack helicopter, created by the belief that an attack helicopter is no more or less "legitimate" than non-binary genders.

 

I don't see what it has to do with transphobia at all, perhaps aside from whatever it's morphed into while I wasn't looking at it. I freely admit that I don't usually hang around places where this argument would be used with any frequency.

Edited by Iridium
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2 minutes ago, Iridium said:

I was under the impression that the Attack Helicopter thing was making fun of people who identify as non-binary genders, not people who are transgendered?

trans·gen·der
transˈjendər,tranzˈjendər/
adjective
adjective: transgender; adjective: transgendered
  1. denoting or relating to a person whose self-identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender.
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4 minutes ago, SatoshiKyu said:

 

It was a funny maymay that fit within the context of the discussion. Honestly wish I hadn't put it in just to avoid all this bollocks. Ultimately it all boils down to the fact that it is utterly irrelevant what you are or identify as, because that's not the point of the poll. That's all I was getting at.

Sorry for going down this path but I have a problem with the way you're using memes and forum posts as a defense for your offensive joke. On a micro level, it's just a shitty joke and we should move past it, but I'm caught up on the implications of your behavior on a macro level. You've said that there's something wrong with people who take offense at forum posts. It's pretty clear to me that you harbor a deep misunderstanding of how human emotion works on some level, probably because you've never actually been truly offended by anything. "It's just the internet" isn't a defense. Your words actually do affect people, and as an adult you should take responsibility for what you say.

 

We're wildly off topic at this point but this has always intensely bothered me. This mindset is what fuels trolls and all the gross aspects of internet culture that make people's lives worse. The internet is not an excuse to abandon empathy.

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9 minutes ago, Iridium said:

I was under the impression that the Attack Helicopter thing was making fun of people who identify as non-binary genders, not people who are transgendered? Someone can clearly identify as a male or a female, even if it is not in alignment with their physical sex, because we have unfortunately developed millennia of societal expectations centered around the roles these genders are supposed to play. However, no such societal expectations have developed around additional genders -- and as consequence, there is no basis for what exactly those genders require to be "legitimate". Thus the strawman of identifying as an attack helicopter, created by the belief that an attack helicopter is no more or less "legitimate" than non-binary genders.

 

I don't see what it has to do with transphobia at all, perhaps aside from whatever it's morphed into while I wasn't looking at it. I freely admit that I don't usually hang around places where this argument would be used with any frequency.

 

Many (most?) non-binary people consider themselves transgender, although there are some who feel the label doesn't apply to them.

Edited by Link
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2 minutes ago, SatoshiKyu said:

 

Again, the very thought of being offended because of a meme just baffles me. Who cares? 

 

I'm just gonna stop here cause now if feels like I'm fighting a war on multiple fronts that I did not knowingly sign up for. Just gonna fuck off somewhere else.

if there was a meme out there that made people think it's normal to think that all straight guys are about as intelligent as a cow and should be seen as little more than a dildo, and you put up with people using that meme that degrades straight guys for no particular reason again and again for years, would you not start getting tired of it? Wouldn't after years of hearing it you start developing the idea that that's all people will ever see of you? Wouldn't that cause some depression and hopelessness? 

 

Empathize with people. Don't tell people "it's just a meme" because it's not as lighthearted as a thing to some people as it is to you. Just have some empathy for people who are not like you and mind what you say. 

 

Because what people post on a forum does affect other people. It does create a hostile environment for them. And it does lead to negativity they don't need in their lives. And it's not hard to not do that if you just. Show. Empathy. 

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20 minutes ago, vape god said:
trans·gen·der
transˈjendər,tranzˈjendər/
adjective
adjective: transgender; adjective: transgendered
  1. denoting or relating to a person whose self-identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender.

But in that case, is the term not completely fucking redundant with genderqueer? Why even have transgender as a term anymore if you're just going to erase the meaning it once had?

 

Which, so we're clear, is:

Quote

transgender

adjective

1. noting or relating to a person whose gender identity does not correspond to that person’s biological sex assigned at birth

This definition makes perfect sense, having a unique meaning that distinguishes itself from 'transsexual', the word it was a logical extension of as our understanding of gender identity developed. It describes someone who was born with a physical sex that does not agree with their gender. But if we remove sex from the equation entirely, then the concept simply has no reason to exist -- someone's gender is thus totally irrelevant to their sex, and the term becomes totally unnecessary because terms like genderqueer and non-binary ultimately mean the same thing while also being much more accurate.

 

I understand that words change in meaning over time. Gay, of course, sure as hell didn't always mean homosexual. But erasing the meaning of a term entirely, leaving nothing to replace it, while homogenizing it with several others... is not a chain of events that I personally understand.

Edited by Iridium
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genderqueer is more for people who may find themselves with two (or more)  genders, no gender or somewhere undefineable. It's a catch all term for people who fall outside the transgender umbrella, which are people who identify as the opposite binary gender than their sex.

 

genderqueer is just another term for non binary really. 

Edited by Mao
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as two people who are very close to me are trans, and as the suicide rate for trans people is incredibly high, my concern for your feelings being hurt because your dumb meme wasn't well received on a Nintendo forum is greatly overshadowed by my concern that anything I say to these people I love could very well be the last thing I ever say to them.

 

Words have effects.

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51 minutes ago, Mao said:

You kinda were wrong though when you said it wouldn't affect gay people. if a cis guy hooked up with a trans guy, they would have to worry about birth control. Either the trans man would be taking female birth control, or the cis guy would have to take male birth control if it becomes viable. 

 

Being gay does not exclude you from the conversation because you can still deal with pregnancy if you're gay because of trans and non binary people.

 

... The questions covered this. They're so basic they cover literally every single eventuality. 

 

Question 1: Are you physically capable of putting a bun in someone's oven?

Question 2: Are you likely to be interacting with someone whose oven is capable of baking said bun?

 

Covers everything. Everything. So no, it doesn't matter what your personal hangup is, what you identify as or anything else anyone can come up with. It's a question about your physical capacity to reproduce and your likelihood of doing so. Just like how you don't put something non-binary down on a form when you go to the doctor, because that would be rank idiocy. The doctor doesn't care what you identify as, they want to know what parts you were born with you get the best treatment possible for whatever is ailing you. That way they're not checking someone for prostate cancer only to find out they weren't born with a penis and so don't have a prostate gland.

 

45 minutes ago, Young P said:

Sorry for going down this path but I have a problem with the way you're using memes and forum posts as a defense for your offensive joke. On a micro level, it's just a shitty joke and we should move past it, but I'm caught up on the implications of your behavior on a macro level. You've said that there's something wrong with people who take offense at forum posts. It's pretty clear to me that you harbor a deep misunderstanding of how human emotion works on some level, probably because you've never actually been truly offended by anything. "It's just the internet" isn't a defense. Your words actually do affect people, and as an adult you should take responsibility for what you say.

 

We're wildly off topic at this point but this has always intensely bothered me. This mindset is what fuels trolls and all the gross aspects of internet culture that make people's lives worse. The internet is not an excuse to abandon empathy.

 

Of course I've been bloody offended by things, it's impossible not to be. Just not on the internet. I mean you can preach on your high horse about human empathy but all I need to do is go spend 5 minutes on Reddit and see how absolutely wrong you are. That's not how people are online. You can wish they were, but that doesn't alter reality. 

 

See the thing is that I don't actually care if the maymays were offensive. Nor do I care if they weren't. I referenced them because I find them amusing, nothing more and nothing less. Thankfully no-one gets to tell me what I can and can't find amusing just because it might hurt someone's feelings.

 

Ultimately I'm simply intimating that I didn't intend for my dank maymays to be offensive. If I had intended it, I wouldn't care if someone took offense. Obviously, as that would have been the point. So the only reason I'm defending anything at all is that I hadn't actually meant to offend. But in the end words are only words, and this is just the internet. Nothing here actually matters, not really. 

 

This is also not to say I have anything against anyone that might be offended. It's hardly personal. I type what I find amusing, and whether other people find it as amusing is utterly irrelevant in the end. It made me laugh, so mission accomplished!

 

Also about the whole 'as an adult you should take responsibility for what you say' thing. Yeah, maybe. As an adult I should also be able to expect my fellow adults to be able to read words and not get bent out of shape. Nothing I say has any meaning to you. Not one person on this forum gives a damn what I think or feel, and that's as it should be. We aren't friends. I don't know any of you, and you don't know me. If you seriously cannot read  words written by a complete stranger that might indirectly refer to you and not take those words immediately to heart... I don't even know what to say.

 

40 minutes ago, Mao said:

if there was a meme out there that made people think it's normal to think that all straight guys are about as intelligent as a cow and should be seen as little more than a dildo, and you put up with people using that meme that degrades straight guys for no particular reason again and again for years, would you not start getting tired of it? Wouldn't after years of hearing it you start developing the idea that that's all people will ever see of you? Wouldn't that cause some depression and hopelessness? 

 

Empathize with people. Don't tell people "it's just a meme" because it's not as lighthearted as a thing to some people as it is to you. Just have some empathy for people who are not like you and mind what you say. 

 

Because what people post on a forum does affect other people. It does create a hostile environment for them. And it does lead to negativity they don't need in their lives. And it's not hard to not do that if you just. Show. Empathy. 

 

I would just fucking ignore it? As I apparently have been doing for years in your hypothetical scenario. Because again I don't care what people on the internet see me as. I'm not out here looking for the approval of the faceless masses. I'm just another dude on the internet killing time. I mean for god's sake if I took the words of some of the crazies on Tumblr to have any value whatsoever, I would think myself Hitler reincarnated. Just for being male and white and straight. You think there AREN'T memes (or the equivalent) that act like this about straight guys? Holy shit could I show you the world through a different lens. Utter lunatics wailing about how all men should die and how white people are the devil... somehow, through some leap of truly non-elucidan logic. If I gave even the slightest shit what people like that thought about me I'd be a depressed and nervous wreck. Luckily I do not.

 

I mean I might make fun of someone who's a little different, but I don't actually care that they're different. You do you. I reserve the right to be a cunt over the internet about it, as that is an inalienable right that comes with basic anonymity and freedom of speech, but I will never argue against your right to be whatever the hell you want. I will defend it, in fact. Thought policing is universally wrong, even if the thoughts are... frankly kinda weird. 

 

Be the attack helicopter. That's none of my business.

 

---Das it for me, I just wanted to reply to the people talking directly at me. Goddamn I hate how all of this exploded from fucking memes. Now actually done with this thread. If y'all wanna keep fuckin' arguing with me you can send me a private message. More than happy to argue the general lack of empathy on the internet or whatever the hell else, just not gonna do it here where I got like 20 people callin' me a prick all at once. At least make an orderly line, yanno? It's the principle of the thing. 

 

EDIT: Goddamn typos

Edited by SatoshiKyu
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4 minutes ago, Mao said:

genderqueer is more for people who may find themselves with two (or more)  genders, no gender or somewhere undefineable. It's a catch all term for people who fall outside the transgender umbrella, which are people who identify as the opposite binary gender than their sex.

 

genderqueer is just another term for non binary really. 

I'm... afraid to say that I still don't understand completely. This sounds a lot more familiar to me, but if this is the case, don't those two concepts kind of conflict? If transgendered people are locked in an opposing gender binary, then what falls outside of it? Or if the binary is something murkier with gray zones and overlap and all that, where does that leave the people stuck with opposing gender and sex? How does that get resolved?

 

Either way, thank you for explaining so far. The last time I tried asking about this I just got 30 people calling me a bigot and telling me to fuck off, so I'm glad you've taken the time to help me out. It's made me a lot more open to the idea than I previously was.

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I'm dumb, can somebody more knowledgeable educate me :hamcute:

 

If a gender identity is recognized as being a completely arbitrary social construct that limits the ways in which the human personality is allowed to express itself, why create a wider variety of chains to shackle the individual instead not recognizing it altogether? I feel like no gender (agender) is the only reasonable stance to take.

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Just now, nornir said:

I'm dumb, can somebody more knowledgeable educate me :hamcute:

 

If a gender identity is recognized as being a completely arbitrary social construct that limits the ways in which the human personality is allowed to express itself, why create a wider variety of chains to shackle the individual instead not recognizing it altogether? I feel like no gender (agender) is the only reasonable stance to take.

gender identity is an ingrained biological thing, albeit poorly understood, as research into it hasn't begun until recently 

 

it has nothing to do with gender roles, which are 100% societal and unnecessary 

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Okay, so that one guy is just an asshole. Noted for future conversations. I might post a novel later, but first want to get to Iridium. 

 

Transgender at the most basic level is someone who is born with one binary sex (male or female)  and identifies completely and totally as the opposite of that. (guy born biologically sexed male identifies completely and totally as a woman. There are no leftover masculine traits.)

 

Non binary (genderqueer) is basically everything else. People who feel like they have neither masculine or feminine traits (agender), people who feel like they have both masculine and feminine traits simultaneously (bigender) , or even people who feel a mix of all three: masculine, feminine , and none (trigendered). Yes, it's possible for people to feel they are both simultaneously male, female, and neither of them at the same time. 

 

Transgendered people don't ever feel this duality of gender. They feel completely and totally the opposite  of their sex. That's what separates them from genderqueer individuals because genderqueer folk don't possess one gender trait.

Edited by Mao
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