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The Paper Mario and Metroid coming 2020 rumor mill + ?


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Yes, and I can find much more nitpicks with Fusion, especially when it was my most replayed out of the 2D’s for speedrunning and such. One of the most obvious gripes would be not being able to skip the monologue and dialogue parts after you’ve beaten the game before. At least Other M allowed you to skip the cutscenes upon another playthrough, but why does Fusion’s scenes have to remain unskippable which only disrupts the flow for reruns?

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Okay, then. If a Super remake is out of the question. Let's flip the perspective here, it was brought by pichi that the Majora's remake had its mixed views (I do agree that 2 out of 4 bosses did need any changes) but personal Zelda bias aside everything else like how they streamlined the bombers notebook, saving and playing certain songs were a great bonus.

 

So even though the Marjora remake was not better overall, if Super Metroid have very little flaws what if another game I mentioned before gets a remake, like A Link to the past? (A Between worlds does not count) To many like Super Metroid ALttp is perfection that it's following game took a lot of template to create Ocarina of time and why that game took that long to make.

 

So if Super Metroid cannot be remade is it the same with ALttp? If not why can't Super Metroid cannot be remade?

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I don't think the current standards for the series are better than what Super had. Power Bombs are probably selected due to the combos, and I wouldn't want those combos removed to have Power Bombs more accessible in Morph Ball. Getting rid of the run button too would leave less options for the player. I think Samus's movements became stiffer after Super due partly to allowing less control of how she moves. Both would likely be adjusted in a remake to follow the standards set since Fusion, and that already would change the feel of the game. I'm more worried though about how trivial enemy interaction will be if they used Samus Returns as a template and that goes for any 2D remake. 

Edited by IU
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Getting rid of the run button would also eliminate the point of Super's infamous "noob bridge" in early Brinstar.

 

Fusion was already brutal as it was with taking damage, particularly before you got the Varia Suit due to the Metroid DNA giving you vulnerability to cold. I like to think a remake would consider that and not make the trivial enemies too aggressive and unforgiving like with Samus Returns. Also curious how they would change the SA-X encounters in a remake (if at all) and things like that. The survival horror fan part of me just sees so much potential for a Fusion reimagining.

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5 hours ago, DLurkster said:

So if Super Metroid cannot be remade is it the same with ALttp? If not why can't Super Metroid cannot be remade?

I would be fine with a Super Metroid remake if it was 99.95% faithful to the original game's design, but I think they're going to use Samus Returns as a template which would be asking for a great looking version that's very inferior to the original. I think at most, beyond visuals, what should be done is to have the map update once items are acquired, allow Spazer and Plasma to be stacked, remove damage from Shinespark and add lore-based galleries like Chozo Memories that unlock based on progress (most of which @Tyranogre pointed out). 

 

3 hours ago, Ridley Prime said:

Fusion was already brutal as it was with taking damage, particularly before you got the Varia Suit due to the Metroid DNA giving you vulnerability to cold. I like to think a remake would consider that and not make the trivial enemies too aggressive and unforgiving like with Samus Returns. Also curious how they would change the SA-X encounters in a remake (if at all) and things like that. The survival horror fan part of me just sees so much potential for a Fusion reimagining.

I mean making the encounters trivial with a melee counter system again. I do hope enemies stay aggressive personally, but it needs to be more than lunging towards Samus in my opinion. Fusion has plenty of X-infested Space Pirates to help with that and the zombie scientists could be interesting to encounter again as well. Fusion overall I feel will provide Mercury Steam with more inspiration than Metroid II for how enemies will interact and hopefully how Samus can deal with them. With SA-X, I do hope they change up the scripted meetings and chases from the original if a remake were done. I don't want to expect SA-X at certain locations based on my knowledge of the original. 

 

Edited by IU
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19 hours ago, Tyranogre said:

*Having a dedicated “run” button when there’s never any practical reason to walk

given you're stuck to a d-pad, run being the only option would have been terrible when trying to position accurately for hard jumps or during boss fights though

18 hours ago, DLurkster said:

So if Super Metroid cannot be remade is it the same with ALttp? If not why can't Super Metroid cannot be remade?

alttp is way simpler and would be much harder to screw up. it could easily receive a facelift without many potential problems.
it had a remake on the GBA for example, and the only real issue iirc was the problems introduced by the lack of real estate on the GBA screen
i could see them doing even more nowadays to try to streamline dungeons and such for no reason though

Edited by Pichi
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Ah, I forgot ALttp was brought back to the GBA like the the first Mario titles on the NES, which were called the advanced series. Oddly enough they did the same with the first 3 Sonic games on the Genesis as well. They all had their share of tweaks as well, it would be somewhat pointless to port the game without any tweaks.

 

Hmm, though I have not played a lot of Metroid games just because Samus returns worked for its gameplay does not mean it would for other games in the series. I get it, I apologize for thinking one type of gameplay could work in another game of the same series.

 

I guess to me and the Zelda series this would be like someone saying they would like Skyward Sword to play like TP but there's a reason the game was the most linear in the series. It didn't do it any favors and I would of preferred if they didn't do that but how the game was structured gameplay wise is why it had to be more linear than usual.

 

Well I learned a bit about the gameplay differences in Metroid games.

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Unless I'm wrong, I don't think A Link to the Past was a remake on GBA. Yeah they tweaked a few things but it was essentially still very close in almost every way to the original release on the SNES.  Not exactly a 1:1 comparison to what an actual remake for something like Super Metroid would have been.

 

I still challenge that a remake on Super Metroid wouldn't be a bad thing.  Even if MercurySteam were to do for it what they did for Samus Returns they wouldn't necessarily have to use that same exact framework.  There was a lot about Metroid II that was incredibly vanilla and plain compared to something like Super Metroid and a lot of that was almost entirely the result of not just the platform it debuted on but the premise of the game itself.  Samus Returns almost felt like an entirely different game because of all the additions that were made to it to incorporate a bit more than what the original game had.

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21 minutes ago, Kezay said:

Unless I'm wrong, I don't think A Link to the Past was a remake on GBA. Yeah they tweaked a few things but it was essentially still very close in almost every way to the original release on the SNES.  Not exactly a 1:1 comparison to what an actual remake for something like Super Metroid would have been.

they had to rebuild it basically because it couldn't run the same on GBA
so visually it looked different, and they had to change dimensions to fit on the screen as well
there was also Four Swords. so it wasn't just a squished port like Classic NES LoZ

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51 minutes ago, devilsKnife said:

Super Metroid doesn't have a lot of issues gameplay wise but it could be worth remaking it just to bring it to a new audience that might not have played the original before.

 

casuls

isn't that the whole point of VC / SNES classic / rereleases
it doesn't need to be a remake

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2 hours ago, Pichi said:

they had to rebuild it basically because it couldn't run the same on GBA
so visually it looked different, and they had to change dimensions to fit on the screen as well
there was also Four Swords. so it wasn't just a squished port like Classic NES LoZ

I get that, but rebuilding the game to work with the GBA hardware is still a very different sort of production than remaking it. They essentially rebuilt the same game. Four Swords was also a wholly different experience on its own.

 

48 minutes ago, Pichi said:

isn't that the whole point of VC / SNES classic / rereleases
it doesn't need to be a remake

Not to piggy back on this piece of dialogue between you and devilsknife, but if this is the sentiment we're going with then why can't we have both?  Those who want to keep the purity of the original can stick to the VC/SNES Classic/Rereleases and we can still have a remake to check out as well.

 

Better yet, let Nintendo do the remake and have the original be a bonus of some sort.

Edited by Kezay
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1 hour ago, devilsKnife said:

I just don't know if zoomers care about the original versions of dusty old SNES games tbh.

people discover old media all the time, especially when it's trendy. happens with music constantly.
2D gaming is really in vogue right now, and Nintendo is doing really well.
and unlike the ton of 3D platformers that have received remakes lately (and Link's Awakening), SNES games haven't aged poorly visually or mechanically at all.
remakes aren't really necessary. all you need to do to generate interest is talk about good games and make them available.
there's always a subset of kids into older gaming, just like there's always a subset of kids into older music.

Edited by Pichi
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I don't understand the desire to fill a release with a remake that has more potential to be disappointing compared to other options available. Really, only Metroid and Metroid II are aged enough in either their mechanics and/or look to where a remake made sense. The only reason why I think a Fusion remake is brought up is because of how Samus Returns ended. If not for that, I don't think Fusion should be remade either. It's going on 10 years since anything completely new has come from the main series and going on 18 years since anything entirely new from 2D Metroid. If they're not taking on a remake that they opened the door for with Samus Returns, the Metroid game should be brand new. 

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Remakes in general for games of other renowned series have become more trendy/common nowadays, so I think it's worth at least being somewhat open to the idea. On the other hand, having a remake of both Super Metroid and Fusion would kinda be a concerning sign that they're running out of ideas, though I guess most would take it over nothing, but would prefer just a Fusion reimagining if nothing else.

 

Heh, zoomers. Let this be a symbol for that generation.

 

zoomer.jpg.c96e63a1faff04b1a4f838fd91e32a26.jpg

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When discussion about remakes rolls around, my first thought is to question what it is exactly about the game in question that needs to be updated. Metroids 1 and 2 aged extremely poorly, and the formula they pioneered was arguably perfected in Super Metroid, and expanded upon by games like Symphony of the Night. Those first two games benefited from innovations made in later entries, such as updated visuals and an actual map to ease the tedium of wandering around areas that looked exactly the same. 

 

The problem I see with any sort of Super Metroid remake is that the original already has a reputation for being one of the greatest games ever made, so anything more than a graphical update will be met with massive resistance. Link's Awakening on the Switch is not the same game as the Game Boy original. The seamless exploration and the addition of analogue movement alone change the game into something altogether different, whether or not you want to make the argument for these changes being objectively better or worse.

 

With a game as legendary as Super Metroid, the only thing that would make fans happy would be a one-to-one transfer of the SNES original with a fresh coat of paint. It would have to be the same game- to not only retain the integrity of its music and art design, but also retain the same controls, layout, game feel, and speed running and sequence breaking tricks players have learned over the years. But Super Metroid has aged much more gracefully than its predecessors, so at that point, I don't see how it would be different from a simple port.

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On 1/26/2020 at 11:44 PM, IU said:

I don't understand the desire to fill a release with a remake that has more potential to be disappointing compared to other options available. Really, only Metroid and Metroid II are aged enough in either their mechanics and/or look to where a remake made sense. The only reason why I think a Fusion remake is brought up is because of how Samus Returns ended. If not for that, I don't think Fusion should be remade either. It's going on 10 years since anything completely new has come from the main series and going on 18 years since anything entirely new from 2D Metroid. If they're not taking on a remake that they opened the door for with Samus Returns, the Metroid game should be brand new. 

Refresh my memory, why would Fusion need a remake based on what occurred in Samus Returns?

Edited by Kezay
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