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Fortuna Office - N4A Chat Thread - January 2020


Chrom

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6 hours ago, EH_STEVE said:

College/University isn't for everyone, and isn't necessary for a lot of jobs. Also, it's not the easiest to determine its "worth" when comparing USA to pretty much any other country due to the differences in tuition. I went to one of the top business schools in Canada and got a university degree for about $22,000 CAD. Some schools that barely covers a year for an arts degree.

I respectfully disagree, mostly anyway. I have yet to hear of a company outside of standard retail/fast food jobs that would say they prefer someone “without” post-secondary of some kind. You can get lots of jobs without school sure, but I’m really not sure how many of extended value to you in the long-run. 
 

Again, you can go different routes, like starting working and THEN learn concurrently in some capacity, for example. But seriously, I don’t believe there are many “zero post-secondary” options, that most people would want to be in long-term. This is a global capitalism issue, sure, and the US has an awful system (especially in regards to cost), but to suggest that post-secondary isn’t necessary as a general rule is sadly not true, as far as I have seen. It’s one of the great problems with the system, but that’s a lengthier topic.

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10 minutes ago, DranSeasona said:

I respectfully disagree, mostly anyway. I have yet to hear of a company outside of standard retail/fast food jobs that would say they prefer someone “without” post-secondary of some kind. You can get lots of jobs without school sure, but I’m really not sure how many of extended value to you in the long-run. 
 

Again, you can go different routes, like starting working and THEN learn concurrently in some capacity, for example. But seriously, I don’t believe there are many “zero post-secondary” options, that most people would want to be in long-term. This is a global capitalism issue, sure, and the US has an awful system (especially in regards to cost), but to suggest that post-secondary isn’t necessary as a general rule is sadly not true, as far as I have seen. It’s one of the great problems with the system, but that’s a lengthier topic.

The problem is, most people go because it's the norm, spend thousands they don't have, and don't use it. And in general, I meant college/university over Trade Schools or Specialty Schools. My sister got a degree in social work. Hated it. Went to a 18-month program to become an X-ray tech, LOVES it, makes bank. My older brother bailed after 2 years, got his Real Estate license, loves his job. My younger brother did 6 years, SIX YEARS, of university without coming out with a degree (kept switching directions), because he didn't know what he wanted to do. Sells cell phones, makes great commission, fairly stress free. My main argument really is that it is absolutely not for everyone, I do think you should try something after high school, but don't feel like you have to. People start their own companies, go to specialty schools (those like 12-18 month programs) or 2-year community colleges, or trade schools and they all do fine. People also get their degrees, then their masters, and still get stuck in retail. But for a lot of people it's just a societal pressure and a lot of debt.

Edited by EH_STEVE
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@EH_STEVE Sure, university is not for everyone. I think the skills I learned there are critical, but in theory we should be teaching a lot of those soft skills in High School, anyway.
 

See, I lumped all post-secondary into the one category for the sake of the discussion, but you’re right, they are different and trade school (college in Canada) or even just certificates/licenses could cost significantly less. But the conversation I was seeing was “school vs. strict working”, or in other words, “all post-secondary vs. relying on work experience after high school”, so that’s the kind of thinking I was responding to. I could have misread others’ point, though.

Edited by DranSeasona
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1 hour ago, Tyranogre said:

I've actually never had a real job interview before; only mock interviews at unpaid internships.

 

The only reason I have my current job is because my boss hired me on the spot. y;

And I am happy for you! The interview process really sucks for many people, and this coming from someone who has dabbled in HR before. 

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Hopefully the system's indoctrination will loosen in like a decade or two, when wiser people should be around to better guide adolescents that they don't need to go to a post-secondary school, or at least make more informed life decisions after finishing high school. Same goes for other things like getting married or having kids.

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I tell people not to marry all the time. And only to do it if it means something to YOU and YOU want to do it. I constantly have to try to explain to my mom why my brothers have no interest in marriage or children, she still doesn't get it.

 

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, Chrom said:

Hopefully the system's indoctrination will loosen in like a decade or two, when wiser people should be around to better guide adolescents that they don't need to go to a post-secondary school, or at least make more informed life decisions after finishing high school. Same goes for other things like getting married or having kids.

Sure, but as I mentioned that involves also teaching kids in high school the actual skills they need to make those choices properly. Rampant individualism that is bred in ignorance rather than knowledge is part of the problem, not the solution. 

 

@winterberry That’s a great idea! :) I definitely think giving people time to figure things out is important, too.
 

@EH_STEVE I agree that it’s important that people are prepared for what they intend to do with their lives (I.e. not getting married and having kids willy-nilly), but there’s nothing wrong with encouraging people to grow up a bit in certain ways. No offence but if somebody just spends all their waking hours in their parents house playing video games, it’s well within the parent’s right to tell them to get a job and help foot the electric bill, for example.
 

Nonetheless I think that’s meant to be a mature conversation rather than just applying pressure. I don’t like societal pressures or family pressures that contribute nothing on their own because the line is “this is just how it’s supposed to be”, which is silly. If there are good reasons for something then that should be discussed, if there’s no real reason then it should be re-examined.

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2 minutes ago, DranSeasona said:

 

@EH_STEVE I agree that it’s important that people are prepared for what they intend to do with their lives (I.e. not getting married and having kids willy-nilly), but there’s nothing wrong with encouraging people to grow up a bit in certain ways. No offence but if somebody just spends all their waking hours in their parents house playing video games, it’s well within the parent’s right to tell them to get a job and help foot the electric bill, for example.

No where was implying at at all. My older brother has a job, a house, and has been in a committed relationship for 8+ years. My mom hounds him about kids and marriage. He's always saying he's not doing it and she doesn't understand that the views people have on marriage have changed and to a lot of people (especially those not religious) it's not a big deal anymore to not get a piece of paper from the government to validate your relationship. My wife and I got married, literally because we WANTED to be married, and we didn't make it official until after 15 years together (10 being engaged). It was a courthouse wedding with no religious implications. Neither of us made it a big deal to our families, because we didn't really care what they thought (mind you by this point they were all on board or considered us married anyways), but we did it for US. My younger brother has his own place, his own car, and ended a 5 year relationship because she wanted kids and he didn't. Mom didn't understand why he didn't want kids, and he had to explain it's just not something in life HE wants, especially given his views on how the world is changing.

 

All I'm saying is, life ain't what it used to be. And personal happiness and finding your own way through life is far more important than meeting the pre-existing societal norms of: High School > College > Job > Marriage > House > Kids. I never dissuade people from doing what they want, I just tell them that you gotta do you, and not fall into the pressures of what North America has been doing for decades and that the "path" should be" High School > Personal Growth > Financial Stability > Own Place (Rent or Own) > Personal Happiness > Personal Growth. Personal Growth in there twice intentionally and can be anything like more education, forming relationship, whatever. No need to blast it all at once, especially at the cost of emotional and financial stability. 

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What's troubling is that by discouraging people from having kids in their 20s, at the current rate the economy is going, by the time they're financially stable enough to start families, they be at the age where any children they bear will have increased risk of developing birth defects.

 

How can I re-phrase that so it doesn't sound like I support eugenics? y;

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13 minutes ago, Tyranogre said:

What's troubling is that by discouraging people from having kids in their 20s, at the current rate the economy is going, by the time they're financially stable enough to start families, they be at the age where any children they bear will have increased risk of developing birth defects.

 

How can I re-phrase that so it doesn't sound like I support eugenics? y;

it's still only an increase by like 1-2%
that shit is way overblown

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