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On the troubling state of the Pokemon franchise

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1 minute ago, DLurkster said:

Yeah, we may not know the state of which Pokemon will be Sword and Shield. I think there's small chance the visuals will improve and I mean small not because of it's GF and they are small just the history of GF. And TBH for this to be the visuals of our first gen game on actual console that is also portable. I don't think it is that bad comparison or expectations wise.

 

I wasn't expecting much in the visual department for this game so maybe that is why I'm okay with the visuals overall. I would have to think and ppl can disagree with seeing that animation takes a lot work with each Pokemon, (which where the whole which Pokemon will be in this, ironically) simply put the resources went to them instead of the world. I think despite what I think that they made a decent enough balance of the pokemons look and world TBH. Again, this is just my expectation and I'm fine with it.

Yea that's pretty much how I feel about it, and hoping that they do improve. Maybe be less muddy.

 

Definitely... but price wise... that's kind of where I'm doubtful... if this is it (not that it will be), then is it worth paying full price for?  To be honest I kind of feel similar with Mario Maker 2, only now that is edging out Sword and Shield by a nose, given that at least I'm feeling some emotions about it. Amiibo missing aside, it doesn't feel like a big deal to me anymore. I'm not a fan of getting it at full price still though.

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1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

Yea that's pretty much how I feel about it, and hoping that they do improve. Maybe be less muddy.

 

Definitely... but price wise... that's kind of where I'm doubtful... if this is it (not that it will be), then is it worth paying full price for?  To be honest I kind of feel similar with Mario Maker 2, only now that is edging out Sword and Shield by a nose, given that at least I'm feeling some emotions about it. Amiibo missing aside, it doesn't feel like a big deal to me anymore. I'm not a fan of getting it at full price still though.

Interesting, I rarely at all measure the visuals of game with value or at but that's a valid view. TBH despite my expectations I think as I said the visuals are fine. Back when we first saw footage of this game in Pokemon direct for this February, the visuals there were muddy for sure and I do see some improvements there. I remember myself saying back then so if they can improve there in 4 month with the one this month, with 5 more months maybe there might be improvements in that department.

 

I felt the same way when they show Super Mario 3D World and Mario Tennis Aces and another game I can't remember, they all improved mildly not significantly. But remember Nintendo is a bigger company than GF so that is why I'm not putting that much expectation to improve much or at all so far.

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4 minutes ago, DLurkster said:

Interesting, I rarely at all measure the visuals of game with value or at but that's a valid view. TBH despite my expectations I think as I said the visuals are fine. Back when we first saw footage of this game in Pokemon direct for this February, the visuals there were muddy for sure and I do see some improvements there. I remember myself saying back then so if they can improve there in 4 month with the one this month, with 5 more months maybe there might be improvements in that department.

 

I felt the same way when they show Super Mario 3D World and Mario Tennis Aces and another game I can't remember, they all improved mildly not significantly. But remember Nintendo is a bigger company than GF so that is why I'm not putting that much expectation to improve much or at all so far.

Ah. Just wondering, what did you see improvements wise? I'm curious.

 

Fair point on that. And I really like 3D World. Very good point. But to be honest, size of the company aside, I'd hope for some improvement.

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1 minute ago, Doc Brown said:

Ah. Just wondering, what did you see improvements wise? I'm curious.

 

Fair point on that. And I really like 3D World. Very good point. But to be honest, size of the company aside, I'd hope for some improvement.

The way the characters models look, they looked more smooth if I had to say from February till now. Back in February they look muddy like they were smeared in vaseline. I think they did that to have light bouncing off the character and that look was not spared for the world. Those yellow fields back then had a lot of bloom and now they don't as much. It's hard to see the difference but there less bloom on the environment. Also the environment in the cave mines look better from the last time we saw them too in February, they were muddy too but different from the character models when it look like they were smeared in vaseline. Back then they looked just blurry but different then character models vaseline look.

 

Hopefully the above makes sense in what I said.

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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, DLurkster said:

The way the characters models look, they looked more smooth if I had to say from February till now. Back in February they look muddy like they were smeared in vaseline. I think they did that to have light bouncing off the character and that look was not spared for the world. Those yellow fields back then had a lot of bloom and now they don't as much. It's hard to see the difference but there less bloom on the environment. Also the environment in the cave mines look better from the last time we saw them too in February, they were muddy too but different from the character models when it look like they were smeared in vaseline. Back then they looked just blurry but different then character models vaseline look.

 

Hopefully the above makes sense in what I said.

I agree with you there, that's a really good point and it gives me some hope. 

 

Just saw a pretty funny meme over on IGN about that poor tree:  https://www.ign.com/boards/threads/are-pokemon-sword-and-shield-graphics-bad.455373950/page-2#post-519608248

 

lol;  rofl;

 

 

And this post gets it:  https://www.ign.com/boards/threads/are-pokemon-sword-and-shield-graphics-bad.455373950/page-2#post-519613274

 

Very well said.

Edited by Doc Brown

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On 6/22/2019 at 8:01 PM, Doc Brown said:

Heck just showed my mom the pic from Sword/Shield and XD and she thought things were horrible in regards to the clarity of the graphics and didn't want to buy the game. Can't say that I blame her for feeling that way. I can see where you're coming from as well, @DLurkster, it's kind of me too, but I still feel as if something is missing there, spirit wise in game. It feels rather sterile right now. Just hoping that the final product has any issues/problems ironed out by then.

It's a pretty bad comparison in general. Ther s still work to be done in Sword/Shield for sure but it's doing nothing but taking potshots to line up Pokemon XD next to it like that. There's no real messsge being put forth doing that and instead is an example of people insisting on reasons to bash the game elsewhere out of frustration around the controversy this game is seeing. It's a big reason why I can't buy the laziness angle because it's such a fundamentally empty hot take with how most are approaching it.  

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14 minutes ago, Kezay said:

It's a pretty bad comparison in general. Ther s still work to be done in Sword/Shield for sure but it's doing nothing but taking potshots to line up Pokemon XD next to it like that. There's no real messsge being put forth doing that and instead is an example of people insisting on reasons to bash the game elsewhere out of frustration around the controversy this game is seeing. It's a big reason why I can't buy the laziness angle because it's such a fundamentally empty hot take with how most are approaching it.  

I agree to disagree with you on that one. As I wasn't even insulting the game, one, and two, I'm aware that there is still work to do. And three, I'm of the mind of seeing where things go. That said, I find nothing wrong with thinking something doesn't look all that hot. I'm honestly not even remotely frustrated at this point. And I don't even care that they're removing Pokémon. I get why some people don't like it though. But it is what it is. Only real issue I do have, in terms of feeling worried, is that it feels rather sterile to me some how. First time I can actually say that about a Pokémon game. I'm hoping that it doesn't feel the same way to me by the time it hits the market.

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I agree to disagree with you on that one. As I wasn't even insulting the game, one, and two, I'm aware that there is still work to do. And three, I'm of the mind of seeing where things go. That said, I find nothing wrong with thinking something doesn't look all that hot. I'm honestly not even remotely frustrated at this point. And I don't even care that they're removing Pokémon. I get why some people don't like it though. But it is what it is. Only real issue I do have, in terms of feeling worried, is that it feels rather sterile to me some how. First time I can actually say that about a Pokémon game. I'm hoping that it doesn't feel the same way to me by the time it hits the market.

Didn't mean to insinuate it was you insulting the game just bringing up where some of the reaction around Pokemon being cut is starting to lean towards. That comparison between the two games mentioned before being an example of that.

Edited by Kezay

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44 minutes ago, Kezay said:

Didn't mean to insinuate it was you insulting the game just bringing up where some of the reaction around Pokemon being cut is starting to lean towards. That comparison between the two games mentioned before being an example of that.

Fair enough. I've seen a death threat towards one of the people who work for Game Freak on Twitter (I'm not kidding either :o). It's one thing to dislike something and to constructively criticize it and it's another thing to cross the line like those above have done.  

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I know others tend to say it as a means of damage control, but I don't buy that they're going to improve things that much more (in terms of visuals, features, or otherwise) by the time of the games' release in November. They have no incentive to, preorders are already flying off the shelves. When has a Pokemon game ever looked different enough from when it shows up at around E3 to when the final product is released? What we see now is mostly what we'll get.

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7 minutes ago, Ridley Prime said:

I know others tend to say it as a means of damage control, but I don't buy that they're going to improve things that much more (in terms of visuals, features, or otherwise) by the time of the games' release in November. They have no incentive to, preorders are already flying off the shelves. When has a Pokemon game ever looked different enough from when it shows up at around E3 to when the final product is released? What we see now is mostly what we'll get.

I generally don't either. But I choose to be a bit positive about it. Better to do that then to not.

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Posted (edited)

Things do change as development goes on (both for the better and for the worse) which is why you typically see the whole "game footage not final" tagline applied to a lot of in game footage including Sword and Shield's trailers.  Gamexplain did a pretty good video pointing out a lot of the positive changes and still remaining pitfalls from the initial reveal trailer and the trailer shown during the Pokemon Direct prior to E3 week.  Reservations still in tow but seemed pleased with the advancements and changes on display between presentations.  I'm looking forward to seeing if they do an update to that analysis following what we know out of E3 where the verdict stands then.

 

But to your point, regardless of how well the game may do commercially is not really an all encompassing reason around whether or not the game's visuals can/will improve.  I don't think anyone arguing the point are expecting a complete overhaul but it's not much to expect, for example, texture work in areas to be touched up and improved as development progresses.

 

Edit: just to clarify this post was for Ridley, was posting from my phone so I guess something went weird and it doesn't show me quoting him. Sorry for any confusion on this one Doc. 😅

Edited by Kezay

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Kezay said:

Things do change as development goes on (both for the better and for the worse) which is why you typically see the whole "game footage not final" tagline applied to a lot of in game footage including Sword and Shield's trailers.  Gamexplain did a pretty good video pointing out a lot of the positive changes and still remaining pitfalls from the initial reveal trailer and the trailer shown during the Pokemon Direct prior to E3 week.  Reservations still in tow but seemed pleased with the advancements and changes on display between presentations.  I'm looking forward to seeing if they do an update to that analysis following what we know out of E3 where the verdict stands then.

 

But to your point, regardless of how well the game may do commercially is not really an all encompassing reason around whether or not the game's visuals can/will improve.  I don't think anyone arguing the point are expecting a complete overhaul but it's not much to expect, for example, texture work in areas to be touched up and improved as development progresses.

Cool. Do you have a link to it? I'm interested in watching it.

 

Exactly. That's where I was coming from, the texture work... hopefully things will be improved there. 

Edited by Doc Brown

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Posted (edited)

Sword & Shield will probably look well when in towns or cities, and I'm a little surprised they didn't bother to show off one of the earlier towns perhaps leading into a couple of battles during the Treehouse segment. Unfortunately, the area I would spend the most time in would be the Wild Area for shiny hunting as that's just what gets me to pick up a Pokemon experience right now and that appears to be the most lackluster part of the game. My expectation for the Wild Area was that it would be a lot like Xenoblade and Breath of the Wild in that I would be able to see Pokemon not just nearby but off in the distance, and my expectation following Let's Go was that there would be a number of Pokemon occupying that space. The Treehouse segment showed me that the Wild Area is completely empty of Pokemon upon entry, and that spawns are a lot like Let's Go in that the player has to be nearby to trigger the spawn. It works better for a fixed perspective experience, not one that's somewhat vast with a free camera. If the Wild Area had better execution, the removal of Pokemon (in terms of transferring over) wouldn't be as much of an issue to me personally.  

Edited by IU

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Tyranogre said:

https://www.businessinsider.com/pokemon-ceo-tsunekazu-ishiharan-nintendo-switch-fail-2017-9

 

Oof, this is so much worse in hindsight.

 

GameFreak weren’t just expecting the Switch to flop, they were counting on it. They needed the Switch to flop.

 

Keep in mind SwSh have two years of dev time. They didn’t start working on it until the Switch was already a success.

 

You are piling it on incredibly thick here to the point of misinformation.  Nothing in the article you just posted suggested that Gamefreak "needed" the Switch to fail or that they were "counting" on it.

 

Having concerns about the Switch's potential to excel as a portable device in the age of smartphones is one thing but Ishihara admits he was obviously wrong on that front.  He even cites quality software being a driver of hardware and that this is what helped the Switch.  Even in the article he still expresses reservations about Switch's potential to appeal to a wider audience but we know that much has changed because a lot has happened in the nearly two years since this article was published.

 

5 hours ago, Tyranogre said:

Keep in mind SwSh have two years of dev time. They didn’t start working on it until the Switch was already a success.

 

Pokemon Let's Go started development in 2016 before the Switch launched and before anyone knew whether or not it would be successful.

Edited by Kezay

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Posted (edited)

To be frank, TPC (not GameFreak) wishing they could forgo Nintendo for smartphones isn't exactly *news*. Like, PGO is their most lucrative product in history, of course they want more of that.

 

But I don't know how much that applies to GameFreak. The latter is a game developer, and all their games are for Switch; notably, Town, a self-published game is heading for Switch so I think they're generally happy to make games for that console.

 

Edited by Ares

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