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Eliwood8

Avengers: Endgame Spoilers Thread

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So I read an interview where apparently the Russo's confirmed that Cap didn't go into the past to live out his life with Peggy Carter, he went to an alternate/branch reality.  They wouldn't say much more than that about how that fits in with anything other than proposing the question; "so how did he get back to THIS reality?"  There was some other talk about the potential for the upcoming Winter Soldier and Falcon movie to play into it but nothing outright confirmed.

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1 hour ago, Kezay said:

So I read an interview where apparently the Russo's confirmed that Cap didn't go into the past to live out his life with Peggy Carter, he went to an alternate/branch reality.  They wouldn't say much more than that about how that fits in with anything other than proposing the question; "so how did he get back to THIS reality?"  There was some other talk about the potential for the upcoming Winter Soldier and Falcon movie to play into it but nothing outright confirmed.

 

 I knew he went back to the alternative past!

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Posted (edited)

End Game is nearly exactly what I was hoping for going in. I wanted a more serious tone compared to Infinity War, and I got that I feel. The humor this time around didn't feel like it was taking away from the seriousness of the overall objective of bringing everyone that could be brought back back and putting an end to Thanos's conquest for universal balance. Emotions for me were high at several points in the film. End Game might be the most emotional film in the MCU in my opinion overall even though it never quite hit the emotions of Yondu's passing in Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2. The emotional peaks for me were Thor seeing his mother again, the epicness of seeing the fully assembled Avengers vs. Thanos's army, Iron Man's passing, "Proof Tony Stark has a heart," and Steve Rogers returning to dance with Peggy Carter. 

 

Finally got to see Pepper Potts as Rescue in the end, and I guess I'm fine with her not saving Tony from being stranded in space considering how things developed in the film. Rescue is an appearance I've wanted to see since Pepper wore Mark 42 in Iron Man 3, so it was a six year journey to see come about. It was nice to see Pepper and her husband, both suited, doing their thing against Thanos's army. It depends on Disney and Gwyneth Paltrow as to whether or not Rescue appears again in the future. It's possible for Rescue to be a trilogy to fill the void left with Tony's passing and the completion of the Iron Man's arc. 

 

Thor joining the Guardians of the Galaxy and Falcon getting Cap's Shield are both arcs I'm interested in seeing in the near future from Disney; however, I hope the latter really isn't about exploring alternate realities or whatever with what Captain America did at the end of End Game. It's very simple for it just to be Steve Rogers going back, putting the stones back in place and choosing to stay in the past with Peggy Carter. If they start going down the rabbit hole of alternate realities due to the Quantum Realm travel, it could just get too ridiculous and complicated. I don't like the Russo Brothers apparently trying to put out information to steer interpretation after the film's release. They're the directors so it should've been directed to heavily imply the vision they have for these characters especially arcs that are associated to characters from Cap's trilogy as those are likely the character films they'll handle later. 

 

If there's anything I don't like in End Game, it's Captain Marvel once she got her hair cut. I don't know if it's Brie Larson or how Disney wants Captain Marvel to be, but my impression was that she had a branch up her ass in all but the beginning of the movie. She was more expressive in her own film and I'm not blaming the Russos' as the rest of the cast was very solid in their direction. I'm glad that Captain Marvel wasn't as OP as I was concerned she would be in End Game and had a minimal role in comparison to the veterans of the MCU. I also like that she is the reason that the forced female squad scene existed, if only because that brought Rescue and Wasp together on the same objective during the finale. Those two are my favorite female characters in the MCU, and the two I would like to see on screen more following Black Widow's sacrifice. 

Edited by IU

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Posted (edited)

 

 Ah so  after watching Endgame I figured what happened to Gamora.

 

 She's missing right now after the huge ass battle was resolved. I guess to find out about herself after being confused on who she is not having to experience what the other one did. 

Edited by Kirbymeister2

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I saw this movie this past Wednesday, liked it -- one small thing that bugs me as I think about it is that, from what I recall, they don't really express why Tony changes his mind to help the team with the time heist. He goes from "sorry, I have a wife and kid now, can't help you" to experimenting with time travel models to showing up at HQ to help them out. One obvious explanation would be "well Tony's a tinkerer, he saw a problem and wanted to see if he could solve it," which is all well and good but I don't see how this fits into his character arc, especially with regard to the breakdown/rehabilitation of his relationship with Steve. After so many dramatic moments where Tony continues to keep up the wall of mistrust, it's not clear to me how he comes around to wanting to help get the stones. This seems like a minor thing but this isn't the first time I feel like they dropped the ball in making the Tony versus Steve conflict that began in Civil War actually mean something. Their feud only exists to provide a temporary obstacle when the plot demands it, only for them to ultimately work together without anything having actually changed.

 

With that being said, as a sendoff for Tony and Steve, I was pretty satisfied overall. I predicted Cap's ending to a tee, because frankly, nothing else would have felt right. Tony is an important character with a complicated arc. First and foremost, I feel good about the fact that they went all the way and killed him off, rather than doing what I thought they'd do and just have him retire to a peaceful offscreen existence. I'm still working out how I feel about it as the culmination of his whole story, but it at least feels like a bold, permanent step, which don't come around often enough in the MCU. It's exciting to have big changes like this that really alter the fabric of the franchise, and not like the snap in IW where we all know it will be undone a movie later.

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I think Tony coming around to tinker with solving the time travel dilemma was kicked off quite a bit after looking at the picture he took with Peter.  Throughout the earlier parts of the movie after Scott Lang presented the possibility of time travel the whole theme changed from moving on after a hopeless situation to one where there is a slim chance of undoing what Thanos did.  Of course, Tony wasn't trying to hear that at first because unlike most of the remaining cast he did move on, settle down and created a life for himself in a post-snap world.  But Peter's death hit him hard; one of the first things he told the team after being rescued was "I lost the kid" and that was a failure he took personally.  There were definitely story beats in play during Endgame and in part from previous movies where Tony and Peter interacted that played a part in his decision. That and well, he did prove to Steve that he was capable of "making the sacrifice play" in the end.

 

18 hours ago, Kirbymeister2 said:

 

 Ah so  after watching Endgame I figured what happened to Gamora.

 

 She's missing right now after the huge ass battle was resolved. I guess to find out about herself after being confused on who she is not having to experience what the other one did. 

That's what kind of figured, it just seemed odd that she was there for the fight but then afterward she was just gone.  But I guess it's not like she would have really talked to anyone since this Gamora didn't really know anyone.  The only person she probably would have talked with about her future plans is Nebula.

 

18 hours ago, IU said:

End Game is nearly exactly what I was hoping for going in. I wanted a more serious tone compared to Infinity War, and I got that I feel. The humor this time around didn't feel like it was taking away from the seriousness of the overall objective of bringing everyone that could be brought back back and putting an end to Thanos's conquest for universal balance. Emotions for me were high at several points in the film. End Game might be the most emotional film in the MCU in my opinion overall even though it never quite hit the emotions of Yondu's passing in Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2. The emotional peaks for me were Thor seeing his mother again, the epicness of seeing the fully assembled Avengers vs. Thanos's army, Iron Man's passing, "Proof Tony Stark has a heart," and Steve Rogers returning to dance with Peggy Carter. 

 

Finally got to see Pepper Potts as Rescue in the end, and I guess I'm fine with her not saving Tony from being stranded in space considering how things developed in the film. Rescue is an appearance I've wanted to see since Pepper wore Mark 42 in Iron Man 3, so it was a six year journey to see come about. It was nice to see Pepper and her husband, both suited, doing their thing against Thanos's army. It depends on Disney and Gwyneth Paltrow as to whether or not Rescue appears again in the future. It's possible for Rescue to be a trilogy to fill the void left with Tony's passing and the completion of the Iron Man's arc. 

 

Thor joining the Guardians of the Galaxy and Falcon getting Cap's Shield are both arcs I'm interested in seeing in the near future from Disney; however, I hope the latter really isn't about exploring alternate realities or whatever with what Captain America did at the end of End Game. It's very simple for it just to be Steve Rogers going back, putting the stones back in place and choosing to stay in the past with Peggy Carter. If they start going down the rabbit hole of alternate realities due to the Quantum Realm travel, it could just get too ridiculous and complicated. I don't like the Russo Brothers apparently trying to put out information to steer interpretation after the film's release. They're the directors so it should've been directed to heavily imply the vision they have for these characters especially arcs that are associated to characters from Cap's trilogy as those are likely the character films they'll handle later. 

 

If there's anything I don't like in End Game, it's Captain Marvel once she got her hair cut. I don't know if it's Brie Larson or how Disney wants Captain Marvel to be, but my impression was that she had a branch up her ass in all but the beginning of the movie. She was more expressive in her own film and I'm not blaming the Russos' as the rest of the cast was very solid in their direction. I'm glad that Captain Marvel wasn't as OP as I was concerned she would be in End Game and had a minimal role in comparison to the veterans of the MCU. I also like that she is the reason that the forced female squad scene existed, if only because that brought Rescue and Wasp together on the same objective during the finale. Those two are my favorite female characters in the MCU, and the two I would like to see on screen more following Black Widow's sacrifice. 

Falcon getting Cap's shield was done in the Prime timeline so unless they do start exploring alternate realities as you suggested every film directly following Endgame's timeline will have Sam as the new Captain America.  I'm just a bit concerned about what the upcoming DIsney+ shows would cover as it has been confirmed they would take the events of Endgame into account.  I'm pretty sure the Loki series will be following the events of Loki escaping with the Tesseract and they confirmed a "What If?" series where Agent Carter uses the super soldier serum instead of Steve Rogers, but I hope the Winter Soldier and Falcon series isn't where Sam as Captain America ends up instead of having a role in the MCU going forward.  That would be a big cop out to me.

 

As for Captain Marvel, I do think Brie's acting was a lot more stiff in Endgame than in Captain Marvel.  I actually hoped she would do more in Endgame than what she did but I'm glad that her lack of involvement had legitimate explanations around it.  She was also whoopin' Thanos' like it was nothing but I like that created situations where she didn't completely dominate the battle because I think it wouldn't have gone over as well if the characters that have been in this saga for all this time, especially Iron Man, didn't have a hand in ending Thanos once and for all.

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4 hours ago, Kezay said:

Falcon getting Cap's shield was done in the Prime timeline so unless they do start exploring alternate realities as you suggested every film directly following Endgame's timeline will have Sam as the new Captain America.  I'm just a bit concerned about what the upcoming DIsney+ shows would cover as it has been confirmed they would take the events of Endgame into account.  I'm pretty sure the Loki series will be following the events of Loki escaping with the Tesseract and they confirmed a "What If?" series where Agent Carter uses the super soldier serum instead of Steve Rogers, but I hope the Winter Soldier and Falcon series isn't where Sam as Captain America ends up instead of having a role in the MCU going forward.  That would be a big cop out to me.

 

As for Captain Marvel, I do think Brie's acting was a lot more stiff in Endgame than in Captain Marvel.  I actually hoped she would do more in Endgame than what she did but I'm glad that her lack of involvement had legitimate explanations around it.  She was also whoopin' Thanos' like it was nothing but I like that created situations where she didn't completely dominate the battle because I think it wouldn't have gone over as well if the characters that have been in this saga for all this time, especially Iron Man, didn't have a hand in ending Thanos once and for all.

If they're putting a "What If" series for Agent Carter, then I would imagine the Loki series would involve the reality in which he escapes with the Tesseract as you said and the Disney+ platform could be where all the potential alternate reality angles could be told. I hope that Sam as Captain America is for the big screen. I think moving that character from being a sidekick on the big screen to leading an off screen series would be a step down, especially after having the symbol of Captain America passed to him in the franchise's biggest film. It would be interesting if they began to build up Sam for his first solo Captain America film in the sequel to Black Panther. Disney could also just get right into Sam leading a solo given how much history has already been developed for the character as Falcon. 

 

Between what Thor did towards the end of Infinity War and what Captain Marvel did in a 1-on-1 with Thanos, I'm convinced the Infinity Stones when they are all six connected lose pretty much all but the grand action of a "snap" to wipe anything from existence or the ability to destroy the stones. That's the only way it would make sense for Captain Marvel to start gaining the upper hand in that fight and yet get launched when the Power Stone was used separate from the other five stones. Captain Marvel herself should only be as strong as what the Tesseract is capable of at her best since she got her powers from Dr. Lawson's engine which was developed with the Tesseract. I'm also thinking that the six stones united takes a toll on whoever is wielding them in terms of just having to make a tremendous effort to keep the power from overwhelming them, so I'm not sure Captain Marvel was dealing with Thanos at his best compared to what Thor, Iron Man and Captain America were dealing with prior to the two armies clashing. 

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On 4/28/2019 at 10:20 AM, XLW said:

Oh.  

  

That could lead up to the GOTG3.  

 

I wonder if Peter will talk about trying to cope with his father figure’s passing in FFH. I mean, both had an interesting relationship in Homecoming. Him leaving New York for a while seems detrimental, like he’s trying to move from or run away from where it first started. We don’t see how much Tony’s death has truly impacted him, and he says that “Europe doesn’t need a Spider-Man” might mean he’s trying to move away from his superhero duties. I don’t think the other Avengers were impacted as much other than Peter. Thor left with new buddies, Hawkeye can finally leave in peace with his family, Hulk Banner has already accepted both halves of himself and has another person to think of, and the War Machine guy, forgot his name... was he still with the Potts? Okay, maybe Tony’s best friend and family might be struggling the most, but we might not get a movie from them. And the fact that this is the last P3 movie makes me think that this is like the aftermath. Since Peter’s probably the youngest of the Avengers, he might not try to take the death as better as the rest. Maybe I’m reading into that too deep.

 

And judging from the Far From Home trailer, I was right.

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On 5/5/2019 at 4:16 PM, IU said:

If they're putting a "What If" series for Agent Carter, then I would imagine the Loki series would involve the reality in which he escapes with the Tesseract as you said and the Disney+ platform could be where all the potential alternate reality angles could be told. I hope that Sam as Captain America is for the big screen. I think moving that character from being a sidekick on the big screen to leading an off screen series would be a step down, especially after having the symbol of Captain America passed to him in the franchise's biggest film. It would be interesting if they began to build up Sam for his first solo Captain America film in the sequel to Black Panther. Disney could also just get right into Sam leading a solo given how much history has already been developed for the character as Falcon. 

 

Between what Thor did towards the end of Infinity War and what Captain Marvel did in a 1-on-1 with Thanos, I'm convinced the Infinity Stones when they are all six connected lose pretty much all but the grand action of a "snap" to wipe anything from existence or the ability to destroy the stones. That's the only way it would make sense for Captain Marvel to start gaining the upper hand in that fight and yet get launched when the Power Stone was used separate from the other five stones. Captain Marvel herself should only be as strong as what the Tesseract is capable of at her best since she got her powers from Dr. Lawson's engine which was developed with the Tesseract. I'm also thinking that the six stones united takes a toll on whoever is wielding them in terms of just having to make a tremendous effort to keep the power from overwhelming them, so I'm not sure Captain Marvel was dealing with Thanos at his best compared to what Thor, Iron Man and Captain America were dealing with prior to the two armies clashing. 

 

That's something I never thought about either that Captain Marvel may have been dealing with a Thanos that wasn't at 100%.  I still have no doubt she would ruin his day if she added some clever strategy to her repertoire to balance out her method of brute forcing through problems.  But because she was infused with energy from the Tesseract her body is accustomed to that massive energy boost compared to Thanos who, with the aid of the gauntlet, is doing all he can to keep the power of the stones from overwhelming him.  The fact he even does that with some ease is a testament to his insane strength as well which is why I think it's that much more impressive that Captain Marvel could tank hits from him like they were nothing until that power gem driven sucker punch.

 

On 5/6/2019 at 5:08 PM, XLW said:

 

And judging from the Far From Home trailer, I was right.

Right on the money.  But not only this, as long as it's not some kind of massive swerve the latest Far From Home trailers could be opening up the floodgates for the MCU to be as bombastic as they'll ever need it to be.

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On 4/30/2019 at 11:29 PM, Kezay said:

So I read an interview where apparently the Russo's confirmed that Cap didn't go into the past to live out his life with Peggy Carter, he went to an alternate/branch reality.  They wouldn't say much more than that about how that fits in with anything other than proposing the question; "so how did he get back to THIS reality?"  There was some other talk about the potential for the upcoming Winter Soldier and Falcon movie to play into it but nothing outright confirmed.

It was confirmed by the writers of Endgame that alternate timeline he created with Peggy somehow is life Peggy lived already in the main timeline. I'm not sure if I misremember but that cannot be right?

 

How can there be two caps in the same timeline living at the same time. Yes, there can be more than one same person at time, case and point the two caps fighting each other in 2012 (America's ass) but can 2 caps co-exist in the same timeline? If what the writers said is true that explains how old cap came to sit on the bench. Because if he cap went back in time and married Peggy, he would of created another timeline outside the Peggy we know in main timeline. That would mean that old cap have to come back to main timeline to sit on the bench not lived in the the past mainline but how would that be if he's the husband from the main timeline?

 

Hopefully that made sense, my head hurts saying that aloud.

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On 5/16/2019 at 3:16 PM, DLurkster said:

It was confirmed by the writers of Endgame that alternate timeline he created with Peggy somehow is life Peggy lived already in the main timeline. I'm not sure if I misremember but that cannot be right?

 

How can there be two caps in the same timeline living at the same time. Yes, there can be more than one same person at time, case and point the two caps fighting each other in 2012 (America's ass) but can 2 caps co-exist in the same timeline? If what the writers said is true that explains how old cap came to sit on the bench. Because if he cap went back in time and married Peggy, he would of created another timeline outside the Peggy we know in main timeline. That would mean that old cap have to come back to main timeline to sit on the bench not lived in the the past mainline but how would that be if he's the husband from the main timeline?

 

Hopefully that made sense, my head hurts saying that aloud.

 

I don't even know what to think anymore if that is the case.  The whole timeline thing is a big question mark that may or may not lead into what the next wave of movies will encompass.  No doubt, all eyes are on Spiderman Far From Home to confirm or deny what effect all of the time travel madness has cooked up. I just hope Marvel is consistent with what they're trying to do.  I'm already not liking that the latest season for Agents of Shield is apparently ignoring the post Infinity War snap even though they name dropped Thanos and the attack on New York (Ebony Maw) multiple times last season.  There IS a connection there but now it's like there is no mention of it.

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On 5/17/2019 at 10:35 PM, Kezay said:

 

I don't even know what to think anymore if that is the case.  The whole timeline thing is a big question mark that may or may not lead into what the next wave of movies will encompass.  No doubt, all eyes are on Spiderman Far From Home to confirm or deny what effect all of the time travel madness has cooked up. I just hope Marvel is consistent with what they're trying to do.  I'm already not liking that the latest season for Agents of Shield is apparently ignoring the post Infinity War snap even though they name dropped Thanos and the attack on New York (Ebony Maw) multiple times last season.  There IS a connection there but now it's like there is no mention of it.

Yeah, confirming multiverses (true or not from Mysterio) is another leap that we have to jump in with time travel 4 months after Endgame is asking a lot from ppl who rather not rack their heads about time travel.

 

Yeah, I do not like that either/ I get they couldn't premier the Marvel Agents of Shield season before endgame because there will be loose connection to Endgame but as each season progress. The connection get looser and looser. Like they mention it is a year after Coulson died but I believe that was before the snap. He dies off air weeks after so he still could of died days before the snap similar timeframe Ant-man and the Wasp was days before the snap as well.

 

What makes the year time gap confusing is that this would be year one of 5 years post Thanos snap and the world was in shit post snap and yeah after a year it won't look as bad as 5 years but it still should look bad so why does it look like earth is al fine. I can accept that everyone from Shield did not snap away, if all of Peter Parker classmates were snapped away for convenience because they need the classmates to be the same age. So if that is the reason on from the cast was snapped sure but even if you don't mention the snap at least make earth appear it is not the same after year after event such as the snap. That's only only gripe with the season so far.

9 hours ago, EH_STEVE said:

They really should've just had it be the SAME timeline, and that Cap lived in the shadows so as to not affect the timeline.

Yeah, that would make it simple but either way how it went down, how time travel works in this movie is that you don't change the present if you alter the past. So cap going in the past living out in the same timeline, while the cap who we know who froze himself in the future, will not change either future. I think they just made ambiguous that this old cap came from another timeline because he went the past and it somehow created another timeline where cap married Peggy.

 

So how does not going in the past not make another time line if they said changing the past does not change the present, that's what is confusing and how the old cap showed on that bench.

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