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Vector

Does Captain Marvel really deserve the hate?

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I have been hearing from all over the internet about the controversy that Captain Marvel is stirring up. Its marketing seems to be pandering towards SJW's, and so is drawing mass ire from fans. This backdraft seems so big that the box office predictions are getting lower and lower as time goes on, and it feels like the Ghostbusters 2016 debacle all over again. While I do object to some of this marketing, including Brie Larson's insult toward white males, do you think this time the hate is a bit.....overblown? 

For one, I haven't seen anything real wrong with the movie judging from the trailers, while the Ghostbusters trailers were infamous for dividing audiences on the special effects. It seems that much of the controversy stems from the marketing than the actual film. Secondly, it's important to remember that while Ghostbusters came from a company who were already making some reputation-damaging mistakes before the movie was released, Captain Marvel is coming from a Marvel Studios that has been building up goodwill in its community with a hot streak of great films, especially in recent years. They seem  to have proven to learn from its own mistakes and really care about each and every one of its properties. And while Captain is an obscure property and hasn't rubbed right with comic book fans in recent years, it's important to remember that Guardians Of the Galaxy was even more obscure than that, and in recent years before the release of the first Iron Man movie, the title character has had his reputation tarnished thanks to his portrayal in the Civil War event.

So do you think that fans should give Marvel the benefit of the doubt after all the studio has done for them, or is this anger completely justified? If the movie is actually pretty good in line with other Marvel movie, should it still deserve to bomb because of its disastrous marketing moves?

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Aside from Captain Marvels powers being needed for their Infinity War tale I don't understand how she got a stand alone movie well before series stalwart Black Widow.

 

Personally I think your comparison to the female Ghostbusters isn't in the right place.  That movie, was the 3rd movie in the series that was well over 30 years old by the time they could get a 3rd off the ground and its initial cast of characters is what really sold the original 2.  The fact that cast couldn't get the money, contracts, script, and everything else right for a 3rd so long after the 2nd that it kind of came off as a slap in the face to the original 2.  Personally, I thought the GB3 was fairly decent for a rebooted idea and my only real issue with it was how insanely obtuse and dimwitted they made  _____'s male secretary character.

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The movie only deserves to bomb if its bad. Marketing plays a role, obviously, and I'm sure we all seen horrible products marketed very well and excellent products marketed poorly. But at the end of the day, the end product should be what matters, and Captain Marvel? 

 

It doesn't look bad. Captain Marvel looks like it will be another good installment in the MCU. Disney has really hit their stride with the Marvel movies. Eventually, the streak is going to break, the superhero bubble is going to burst, but for now, I'm going to enjoy the ride. I remember a time, not terribly long ago, when superhero movies tended to be garbage, rather than good. 

 

I plan on watching Captain Marvel in theaters. I'm thinking I'll even break out my old "Princess Sparklefists" t-shirt for the occasion. Though I'll admit, I still keep finding myself calling that flerken cat Chewie, even though she was renamed Goose for the movie. 

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I don't usually go see every Marvel film at the cinema when they're a dime a dozen (blame superhero fatigue too I guess), and this felt like one I was gonna wait on regardless, while Avengers End Game I would give more priority on seeing sooner.

 

This makes me more thankful the reputation of Wonder Woman's movie (far as I'm aware) didn't get ruined by some activism controversy when it easily could've been, coming out not long after Ghostbusters 2016. The diehard Marvel fans and loyalists will still see Captain Marvel regardless, enough for it to still do well, and I agree that as a movie it's not really comparable to Ghostbusters '16, some marketing aside, but I don't condone some of Brie Larson's wording/statements, which sounds no more professional than what some of the people behind Ghostbusters '16 said toward fans. Also agree Black Widow should've gotten a film first when she had been a long established character in the MCU before Captain Marvel.

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1 hour ago, Tyranogre said:

Is there a Captain DC Comics?

DC has a Captain Marvel as well, but they're calling him Shazam now because everyone else was anyways. He's getting a movie too this year, about a month after Marvel Captain Marvel. 

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I don't think the movie deserves to immediately be crucified due to Brie Larson and some of Marvel's marketing choices, but I can understand why people are upset by what's going on and have no problem with the dislike. I personally would probably be skipping the movie due to Brie's comments if not for my family being interested. I am more concerned about what's going to happen in End Game with Captain Marvel than I am her solo film. I'll take Captain Marvel being a political dump instead of a great superhero movie if End Game delivers as a finale. I echo the opinion that Black Widow should've had a solo film before any other female character in the MCU, especially over a random that just got brought up in a post credits scene last year. It would be cool to see Black Widow put Captain Marvel in check as a seasoned Avenger in End Game.

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On 2/23/2019 at 9:20 PM, IU said:

I echo the opinion that Black Widow should've had a solo film before any other female character in the MCU, especially over a random that just got brought up in a post credits scene last year.

In all fairness, when the movie was announced back in 2014, it was shortly after the 2012 rebranding of Ms. Marvel Carol Danvers to Captain Marvel Carol Danvers, and the character had a ton of momentum thanks to Kelly Sue DeConnick's run on the title. Announcing a Captain Marvel movie made a ton of sense: strike while the iron was hot, and the iron was hot for Captain Marvel in 2014. It made a whole lot of sense.

 

Thank goodness Marvel didn't squander any of this goodwill by repeatedly relaunching the series or sticking the character into crossovers like Secret Empire (Hail Hydra Captain America) or Civil War II, a disaster that completely betrayed her character. I'm hoping the film is a return to form for Captain Marvel. 

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So I saw the movie. It's not amazing, but still pretty decent, and it definitely doesn't deserve all the hate it gets. However, I'm still seeing channels on Youtube like The Quartering mercilessly hating on it despite its box office success showing that general audiences like it. What's more, I'm hardly seeing other videos that defend the film. Shouldn't there be people ready to call out the haters, or at least present a more honest and impartial view at the film?

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Posted (edited)

I saw The Quartering's latest video on Captain Marvel's success, and don't really see the problem aside from his sarcasm being too drawn out. The way this film has been covered has made it seem like Wonder Woman didn't do anything in the box office let alone how it was received critically. Captain Marvel is lifted by the MCU's history not its own quality, and it's helped more by bridging Infinity War and End Game, both of which can be argued as the MCU films with the most interest around them in the MCU's history. The caption for at least one of the articles he covered was also just not true. There are plenty of knocks against men in the movie to make sure that they're not characters really worth gravitating towards. I would like to see a movie like Wonder Woman done in the MCU, where its female lead while still maintaining a sense of equality, as opposed to what happened in Captain Marvel and its inequality. I would love to see the male critics or males in media that think Captain Marvel doesn't have some really bad direction and script film themselves getting scratched in the eye by a cat. They treat Samuel L. Jackson well for him to be so on board with Captain Marvel's Nick Fury portrayal after all those years of establishing one of the most iconic black characters in film.

Edited by IU

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Posted (edited)

Any time a product involving games or movies tries to do anything involving attempting to be more inclusive towards people who aren't straight white dudes, they throw a bitchfit going "BuT wHaT aBoUt Us?????" even calling shit reverse racism or reverse sexism.  God forbid Brie Larson do terrible injustices like *reads articles* mentions she wants more PoC and women to review more movies that are aimed at them, or she wanted a more diverse press tour and let herself be interviewed by women and even somebody with cerebral palsy.

And boy howdy did that boycott and review-bombing pay off, it caused enough issue (and they admitted it happened with TLJ) for Rotten Tomatoes to completely change their policy of reviewing films because of petty assholes whose opinions didn't mean anything, and they made just shy of a PALTRY half billion dollars on opening.  Nerd culture is still misogynistic as all Hell and the fact that they do dumb shit like review-bombing movies that aren't even out or ineffective boycotts because their delicate feelings were hurt by the evil SJW agenda is proof of that.  This garbage happened in Gamergate (and still does), in the anime industry, and ESPECIALLY in the comics industry.  Any attempts to be more inclusive makes insecure manbabies think they're having their seats at the table taken away from them when we're really just adding more seats.

So yeah, it was overblown and thinking a movie is supposed to bomb or suck or you aren't seeing it just because the actress's attempts to be more inclusive hurt your feelings, it was insanely fucking petty.  It wasn't a "marketing disaster" because it was just manchildren making a big stink over shit most people didn't care about, or even agreed with.

Edited by luca

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It's good to know that you guys aren't giving in to the controversy, but my problem is that I see few people defending the film in any way. What's going on here? Should I just let time pass until the hate blows over and more honest opinions are shared?

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If people aren't coming to defend something they like when it's being criticized to whatever degree, chances are there's truth to the criticism. Opinions in defense coming out after opinions against the film cool down speaks of how much that person actually liked the film. I'm all for films like Wonder Woman, but this isn't one of them. Captain Marvel is not the inclusive film people are trying to make it out to be. Sexism is sexism, putting down men is just as sexist as putting down women. It's a straight forward term that doesn't need anything extra to support a way of thinking.

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Or maybe people have better things to do with their time than argue with man babies on the internet.

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5 hours ago, ace said:

Or maybe people have better things to do with their time than argue with man babies on the internet.

Basically this. I loved the movie. I prepurchased tickets because it looked good and it's MCU. I gave zero shits what "reviews" were saying about it, I was excited to see it, I enjoyed, the end. I don't really care about the "politics" behind it. It's a piece of entertainment that costs hundreds of millions to make, and makes hundreds of millions back. I spend my entertainment money where I want, and all I honestly care about is if I enjoyed it and felt I got my money's worth. And I did.

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22 hours ago, Vector said:

It's good to know that you guys aren't giving in to the controversy, but my problem is that I see few people defending the film in any way. What's going on here? Should I just let time pass until the hate blows over and more honest opinions are shared?

This might also be a "bubble" thing. 

 

As in, on my social media channels, I saw a lot of people defending the film on opening weekend, but I don't think I saw a single person insulting the film during that time. I know, if I go searching, I can find the hate (it's not hard to find hate on the internet). 

 

It's been referenced by a couple people here, but I haven't seen The Quartering's video, it's not something that has come up on my social media feeds or though Youtube's algorithm for me. I just haven't gone down that hole, but I know it exists. I personally don't intend to go down that hole, either, as I don't think engaging with the trolls will prove beneficial. 

 

It's best to just enjoy whatever it is you enjoy, and not let the opinions of others ruin your enjoyment of that thing. 

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I think going by reviews, most people can separate the idiotic discourse from legitimate criticisms of the movie, and that's good.  A movie can still be good or still suck ass regardless of the discourse going on around it.  It sounds like it's a solid mid-tier Marvel movie.
 

16 hours ago, IU said:

If people aren't coming to defend something they like when it's being criticized to whatever degree, chances are there's truth to the criticism.

People don't defend specific critiques of media not because there's truth to them and the critiques are valid, but because a lot of them are so misplaced or outright stupid that nobody wants to dignify them with a response.
 

16 hours ago, IU said:

Sexism is sexism, putting down men is just as sexist as putting down women. It's a straight forward term that doesn't need anything extra to support a way of thinking.

This is bullshit  fwiw.  Social politics seldom have straightforward terms and only idiots coming from a position of privilege are willing to distill them down when nuance and context are what ends up defining most of them.  It's like calling a poor person a classist because he thinks rich people are assholes.

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Aye, I haven't seen the movie, but I'm just hoping she doesn't swoop in and snuff out Thanos in a couple of milliseconds cuz she's ultra powerful and stuff, in turn making the other heroes kinda irrelevant in the end.

 

Cuz that's basically the gist of that mediocre Justice League movie that came out awhile back. 

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I was under the impression @Vector was referring to content creators on youtube @EH_STEVE since The Quartering was specifically mentioned. I should've been clearer in that part of my post that I was referring to those individuals who make a living off of discussing films and general media. I don't disagree with the idea that they may just have better things to do than make a video in defense of Captain Marvel since Disney and Marvel are ready to move on to End Game and I'm sure most creators would like to cover that movie instead of continuing to cover a polarizing film.

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