OOT vs MM vs BOTW - Your Favorite Poll

[Kool.K]

9 hours ago, DLurkster said:

See and this were ppl mix-up creepy and dark with some Zelda titles like who is darker Twilight Princess of MM.

 

I'd say TP is darker whenit comes to the atmosphere but MM is creepy.

Well TP is darker, but it also feels so hollow. OOT/MM both have a sense of darkness, but there's something more to them as well. TP lacked identity and the darkness felt forced, not a natural culmination of the story, style and characters coming together to give you that sense naturally.

 

 

Also pasting from previous page since it may get lost;

 

 

I probably sank somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 hours in to BOTW, but to me it really falls significantly short of OOT and fairly short of MM for a few reasons:

 

1. Lack of music. To me this is a big part of Zelda. The amazing tracks of the dungeons, towns, etc are incredibly memorable and add to the atmosphere. I think for BOTW, it would have made sense to keep the current ambient soundtrack they have for the overworld, but have orchestral tracks for towns and some of the more isolated/specific locations. 

 

2. Lack of dungeons. Having recently replayed MM, I would have killed to see something akin to stone tower in BOTW. But frankly virtually any dungeon (except jabu jabu belly) would have been an improvement over the divine beasts. Divine beasts would be much better if they were themed (forest/fire etc, or even something else as long as they have unique identities) had much better music, more puzzles (perhaps the equivalent of 10-15 shrines worth) and better bosses/sub bosses/enemy rooms.

 

3. Not as important as #1 and #2, but would have liked to see more to the story. It just lacked motivation.

 

4. Better side quests/characters. Having played through witcher 3 last year and MM this year the shallowness of the sidequests were a bit jarring. They would have been much, much better if they were attached to character narratives and involved more than collecting certain ingredients. 

 

There's a few other things that aren't necessarily a negative, but could have improved the experience; namely, bigger and more numerous towns, more enemy variety, better weapon degradation, limiting your dishes, as by mid game my character was far too OP thanks to dozens of full health dishes that I farmed ingredients for etc.

 

The problem is that #1 and #2 for me are probably the 2 most important aspects of Zelda games.

 

If BOTW 2 did something about the above points it would have a chance of besting OOT as the GOAT game for me. I love the new open world concept, its a visually really interesting world and mechanics are good. To me its the third best Zelda after the N64 ones for those reasons, but that third place is very distant from OOT for me. I'm hoping BOTW 2 really does improve on these things, especially on dungeons and music/story.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Kool.K

[DLurkster]

@Kool.K I can relate to your points about BotW but to be fair and I'm not sure if this is a opinion but being objective here; yes point 1&2 is what makes Zelda because when you look at its history or when you started to play Zelda games, that is what defines Zelda pretty much and I agree with that aspect. Being objective here; BotW turned a new page in the what we think Zelda should be. This is why this game development was called changing the conventions of Zelda by Aonuma so I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt that he was successful in doing that (kinda not so much with Skyward Sword, that went too much in another direction, where some felt the world was too restrictive) but by doing that story, the characters and its sidequests to a certain degree were downplayed a bit. (I'd say the sidequests in BotW are on par or better than MM. I can see how the lack of characters can diminish that but it's doing the best it can because of how this game wanted to be structured) 

 

Objectively, BotW is Zelda, this is a approach when its conventions is turned on its side. There are Zelda elements in this game, they are just presented differently. 

[EH_STEVE]

I'm staying out of this one.

[Ithrak Utopia]

On 8/24/2018 at 7:22 AM, Kool.K said:

4. Better side quests/characters. Having played through witcher 3 last year and MM this year the shallowness of the sidequests were a bit jarring. They would have been much, much better if they were attached to character narratives and involved more than collecting certain ingredients. 

 

There's a few other things that aren't necessarily a negative, but could have improved the experience; namely, bigger and more numerous towns, more enemy variety, better weapon degradation

 

I've played Breath of the Wild for around 150 hours as well, and started to get bored with the game around the 100 hour mark as I approached the 120 Shrine total and completed Tarrey Town. I think the game overall and the DLC missed out on including at least one more village to the game. The northwest corner of Hyrule is begging for a village, and I felt it would've been the perfect spot for an Anouki settlement. That location would've been cool to find within one of the mountains there as opposed to a single shrine.

 

More enemy variety would've helped make the combat feel more refreshing. There's a lot of creativity involved in getting involved with a group of enemies, but most of my experiences usually end up coming down to dodge-flurry rush regardless of the initial strategy. I think the enemy I miss the most in BoTW are the Like Likes.

[Kool.K]

On 8/24/2018 at 11:09 AM, DLurkster said:

@Kool.K I can relate to your points about BotW but to be fair and I'm not sure if this is a opinion but being objective here; yes point 1&2 is what makes Zelda because when you look at its history or when you started to play Zelda games, that is what defines Zelda pretty much and I agree with that aspect. Being objective here; BotW turned a new page in the what we think Zelda should be. This is why this game development was called changing the conventions of Zelda by Aonuma so I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt that he was successful in doing that (kinda not so much with Skyward Sword, that went too much in another direction, where some felt the world was too restrictive) but by doing that story, the characters and its sidequests to a certain degree were downplayed a bit. (I'd say the sidequests in BotW are on par or better than MM. I can see how the lack of characters can diminish that but it's doing the best it can because of how this game wanted to be structured) 

 

Objectively, BotW is Zelda, this is a approach when its conventions is turned on its side. There are Zelda elements in this game, they are just presented differently. 

Which sidequests in BOTW were memorable? I'm very surprised at your statement of it being better than MM in that regard and am wondering if I missed something.

 

PS: Kezay I feel you watching, if you see this make your presence known in some way.

Edited August 25, 2018 by Kool.K

[Kezay]

8 hours ago, Kool.K said:

Which sidequests in BOTW were memorable? I'm very surprised at your statement of it being better than MM in that regard and am wondering if I missed something.

 

PS: Kezay I feel you watching, if you see this make your presence known in some way.

 

I was just reading the responses and just sort of being interested in everyone's take on things.  Didn't really have too much more to add.  I still have a lot available for me to do in BotW but at least from my perspective there aren't too many quests I can remember or draw on that were as in depth as much of what was seen in Majora's Mask. That's just my opinion though, DLurkster may have completed a lot more to have the more informed opinion on this particular matter.

 

I do agree with him that BotW was something of a turned page on the Zelda formula and so there is a lot that is different which will sit with fans in various ways because of how some of the many Zelda elements are presented so differently.  But BotW can be a stepping stone for future games in that regard.  Dedicated dungeons and caverns would be a nice addition as well as more traditional boss encounters.  It makes me wonder if a remake of Zelda 2 done in BotW's open world (or open air as Nintendo likes to refer to it) would work to that end.

[DLurkster]

18 hours ago, Kool.K said:

Which sidequests in BOTW were memorable? I'm very surprised at your statement of it being better than MM in that regard and am wondering if I missed something.

I didn't say memorable but I can see how you can take my opinion on BotW sidequests as that based on impressions versus MM.

 

I can answer why I think they the sidequests in BotW are about on par with MM.

 

I hope you finished the game or done most of the sidequests, (more so the Shrine quests) as I'll be mentioning them as example sidequests quality to MM.

 

So there's your normal sidequests when you a see red explanation mark above ppl heads, that can range from fetch quest, mini-games or locate someone and fight. (I think those are the variety could be more but those are the ones that come to the top of my mind) Now most of the normal sidequests in this game, I'd have to say are fetch quests and I know to some that can be a pain. In this case the fetch quest appear shallow as you mentioned they lack true character interaction unlike MM. So I think you felt detached accomplishing them when compared to MM, you have notebook jotting down characters names, their personalities and their schedule throughout the 3 days. To me I don't think that is a fair comparison to make that the sidequests in BotW are weaker based on that but because again the structure game demands that characters and the quests must function like this. That's con if that is not your preference not to the game itself as the their other quests in this game that provide another variety of quests, this is where the Shrine Quests come in.

 

Shrine Quests, there's like 30-40 of them in game compare to like the 70-80 of basic sidequests. I'm not saying with these numbers that less is more but it's the variety here we need to take a look at. There are 15 or so Shrine Quests that have a character you want to know more about and that is Kass the Rito, who plays that accordion. He's such endearing character as he tell you stories as a riddle to solve shrine mysteries with his accordion plays along it. Those quests ask you to do some weird things and think outside the box sort like the whole premise of this game in general doing anything. There's more than one way to tackle any situation in this game, it is applied here with these Shrine Quests.

 

So if you bring in these aspects of sidequest in comparison to MM, I'd have to say they are on par or slightly better. (depending on takeaway sidequest) Again, this not comparing quantity but overall variety of quests each game offers.

[Edie Napier]

Breath of the Wild.  OoT wasn't my favorite Zelda game at all even before BotW came out and I think while the game is influential, it's been refined and built upon in various ways by its successors.  Majora's Mask is such a wholly uncomparable experience to BotW because the game is memorable for its world-building, storyline and emotional weight present throughout the game, something BotW I think is honestly pretty weak in.  But BotW is comparable in OoT in the sense that it's clearly laying a foundation for the rest of the series to build on, and it's done so in such a dramatic way that it's staggering that the series can still upend the table and surprise us thirty years later.

 

I think the most important thing BotW did for me was evoke a genuine sense of curiosity and wonder, something a videogame hasn't done in a long time.  I have a lot of niggling issues with the game but the rest of it is such a showpiece that I'll put up with them.

[Kool.K]

Let me preface this by saying that I'm guessing that a bunch of us here that have played OOT when it released are probably between 27-35. I freely admit that I got beer can thick nostalgia goggles on for that game, and I don't believe that there will ever be a game in my lifetime to surpass it. However I assume that nostalgia is a pretty common thing among those having played such a landmark game in our age group. 

 

I'm wondering if some of you are choosing BOTW over OOT based on a kind of logic-only, pros and con, direct comparison of the two. Clearly if both OOT and BOTW released in 1998, BOTW would be considered the better game. It's technically just better.  However I personally rank games based not on a logical deduction of their pros and cons, but rather how much I personally enjoyed each game at the time that I played them.

 

So for those of you that chose BOTW over OOT (or MM) I'm curious about the following; 20 years from now, when looking back at BOTW, do you believe you'll have as strong and fond memories of it as you do of OOT today? 

[DLurkster]

Here's the thing about your hypothesis/question.  In 1998 the ages you reference now would be back then would be 7-16 years old. I was 12 when I played OOT back in 1998, I don't know for most 12 year olds, I'm not as coherent with my thoughts than then am I now. So, as much as I always will have special place for OOT in my heart I can't help but explain my appreciation of the Zelda series as pro and cons for the concepts itself and not what I felt about the, then because I look at them differently and I cannot deny myself to share my honest feelings about them now as adult.

 

So 20 years from now, will I look at BotW, probably yes. I'd still be in state of mind where I can coherently express how I feel about that game, what shape that will take, I do not know. Like OOT it will have special place in my heart. So I cannot fully answer question not because that time has not arrived yet but simply our opinions about anything in life will shift on our experiences, I can at least say this is game will be unique with its approach to open world game.

[Link, the Hero of Dreams]

... Well, maybe not me, but maybe many others. Especially kids.

 

In regards to the 20 years from now, that's what it's like for Pokemon Red AND Link's Awakening. They were a part of my childhood, as the only two games I clearly remember and cherish for good reasons.  

 

BOTW brought so much child-like mystery and curiosity that I had when I was a kid. I didn't care about the quantity of music or whatever. The music fit perfectly for a much more natural feel. I didn't care about the lack of dungeons, because this game was less story-driven. When you think about story-driven games, of course the dungeons were for the most part there. And I didn't care much about the story as much, because the objective was simple to understand: SAVE THE WORLD. But, the tonal shift could be interpreted as weak. An evil might come out at any time, and you could just be collecting your 535th Korok seed. Sure, the side quests and side characters weren't as good memorable *ahem* as Majora's Mask. ... And, I'll agree with that. In that regards, maybe Super Mario Odyssey does it better. More towns, even bigger ones, would probably undermine the world getting worse. Just like one or three more, but more than that would not work with the point of this game. And it works with the amount of races in the games. As for the enemy variety... give me one enemy or an idea that you would've liked to have seen in this game. I personally think the degradation was fair... although that argument lacks any reason except for the right timing. And I don't care about how many dishes I had, because this is the first time they tried it with some interesting results, so I'm gonna eat through these wacky combinations! *nom nom nom nom*  This game desires LESS RESTRICTIONS. 

 

And I don't see how Like-Likes would work when Link in this game has the space for a good amount of shields this time around. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by XLW

[Ithrak Utopia]

Take the currently equipped armor set instead. I mainly am fond of Like-Likes for their jump scare potential. I would've used them to make the Korok Seeds more stressful by having a fake rock placed near some of those rock formation puzzles. The Gerudo Desert could have had them be more common disguised as buried chests or isolated rupees.

[Kezay]

13 hours ago, Kool.K said:

Let me preface this by saying that I'm guessing that a bunch of us here that have played OOT when it released are probably between 27-35. I freely admit that I got beer can thick nostalgia goggles on for that game, and I don't believe that there will ever be a game in my lifetime to surpass it. However I assume that nostalgia is a pretty common thing among those having played such a landmark game in our age group. 

 

I'm wondering if some of you are choosing BOTW over OOT based on a kind of logic-only, pros and con, direct comparison of the two. Clearly if both OOT and BOTW released in 1998, BOTW would be considered the better game. It's technically just better.  However I personally rank games based not on a logical deduction of their pros and cons, but rather how much I personally enjoyed each game at the time that I played them.

 

So for those of you that chose BOTW over OOT (or MM) I'm curious about the following; 20 years from now, when looking back at BOTW, do you believe you'll have as strong and fond memories of it as you do of OOT today? 

I'm not really looking at it from a logic standpoint.  There are things many people, including me, would agree that OoT does better than BotW and vice versa but it's hard to tick off feature check boxes and let that decide things for me.  The experience is a big part of it too and how much of it really jumped out and grabbed me as being exceptional for lack of a more suitable word.  Heck, for me, OoT lost its spot when Twilight Princess came out.  I preferred that game to OoT so it wasn't hard at all for me to choose BotW over OoT and to that same end I'd say the same against TP as well.  While there are some areas that BotW is weak in there's a lot to the experience that has given me that much more enjoyment at the end of the day.  I'm pretty sure that 20 years from now, I'll still have a certain fondness for BotW just as I still have a fondness for OoT despite it having long since been usurped by other Zelda games for me. 

[Kool.K]

1 hour ago, Kezay said:

I'm not really looking at it from a logic standpoint.  There are things many people, including me, would agree that OoT does better than BotW and vice versa but it's hard to tick off feature check boxes and let that decide things for me.  The experience is a big part of it too and how much of it really jumped out and grabbed me as being exceptional for lack of a more suitable word.  Heck, for me, OoT lost its spot when Twilight Princess came out.  I preferred that game to OoT so it wasn't hard at all for me to choose BotW over OoT and to that same end I'd say the same against TP as well.  While there are some areas that BotW is weak in there's a lot to the experience that has given me that much more enjoyment at the end of the day.  I'm pretty sure that 20 years from now, I'll still have a certain fondness for BotW just as I still have a fondness for OoT despite it having long since been usurped by other Zelda games for me. 

Just out of curiosity, could you list off your 5 favorite games of all time? Curious to see how old those games are, or if they're generally more recent.

[Kezay]

38 minutes ago, Kool.K said:

Just out of curiosity, could you list off your 5 favorite games of all time? Curious to see how old those games are, or if they're generally more recent.

My list tends to be fluid but for the most part this is pretty much set for what it is.  But yeah, the games do run a little more recent.  I think the only changes I've really made since the last time I posted a list is Skyward Sword moving off the list, Oracle of Seasons overtaking Link's Awakening and Wind Waker being bumped off along with Skyward Sword.

 

Breath of the Wild

Twilight Princess

Majora's Mask

Ocarina of Time

Oracle of Seasons

[Link, the Hero of Dreams]

1 hour ago, Kool.K said:

Just out of curiosity, could you list off your 5 favorite games of all time? Curious to see how old those games are, or if they're generally more recent.

 

For me, as of now: 

 

6 & 5. Dragonball Z Budokai 3 and Dragonball FighterZ

 

They're both really great at what they do, so trying to put one over the other isn't fair. 

 

4. Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening DX 

 

To be honest, it's one of the first few games I ever owned... and the first game I never beat as a kid, but then did when I grew up.  

 

3. Super Mario Odyssey 

 

 The first Mario game I ever beat... second, but 3D Land was just mediocre. There's so much I love about this game... but, I won't talk about it here. 

 

2. Legend of Zelda: Breath of The Wild 

 

Seriously, I have a lot more to say about it later, but I just love how it deviated from the usual formula. 

 

1. Pokemon Red, Blue, and Yellow 

 

 Call it a cop-out, but I don't care. Pokemon Red was my first game I ever owned as a kid, but the other games are great too. I know they've aged in some areas, but when I think about pure fun, I'll always go back to these games. If it wasn't for the series, who knows where I'd be right now. I might have more to say about it later. 

[Kool.K]

4 hours ago, Kezay said:

My list tends to be fluid but for the most part this is pretty much set for what it is.  But yeah, the games do run a little more recent.  I think the only changes I've really made since the last time I posted a list is Skyward Sword moving off the list, Oracle of Seasons overtaking Link's Awakening and Wind Waker being bumped off along with Skyward Sword.

 

Breath of the Wild

Twilight Princess

Majora's Mask

Ocarina of Time

Oracle of Seasons

This is your top 5 Zelda games or your top 5 games period? It seems pretty heavy on Zelda, so just making sure lol.

 

..And how did you have TP ahead of OOT and MM? That surprises me a lot more than having BOTW at top, which I can more readily understand. 

 

So it seems you're pretty immune to Nostalgia? I ask because my list is pretty much dominated by SNES and N64 games. I mean I have DKC, Goldeneye, Pokemon Yellow, Harvest Moon 64 all in my top 10. In fact the most recent game in my top 10 at #2 is MGS2, which is like nearly 20 years old. My top 10 is basically;

 

Zelda: Ocarina of Time

Metal Gear Solid 2

Super Mario RPG

Secret of Evermore

Donkey Kong Country

Harvest Moon 64

Pokemon Yellow

Goldeneye 007

Dragon Warrior 3

Kirby Superstar

 

Almost all of those franchises, if not all, has had technically better games released since then, but none of them wowed me as the originals that I played. The games that are most memorable to me are the ones that most blew my mind at the times of their release, which of course is easier to do when you're a kid and when these games are blowing the doors open of video game technology. COD MW was great, but it sure as heck didn't wow me nearly as much as Goldenye 007, which was my first FPS, and consequently doesn't share the same affection I have for the latter.

 

I suppose I rank games differently than most it seems. I always assumed childhood favorites would dominate most peoples lists, since you're at your most impressionable.

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by Kool.K

[Kezay]

24 minutes ago, Kool.K said:

This is your top 5 Zelda games or your top 5 games period? It seems pretty heavy on Zelda, so just making sure lol.

 

..And how did you have TP ahead of OOT and MM? That surprises me a lot more than having BOTW at top, which I can more readily understand.

 

Oh, I just figured you meant Top 5 Zelda cause it's a Zelda thread, lol

 

And I mentioned in one of my earlier posts that I preferred TP over OoT.

[Kool.K]

41 minutes ago, Kezay said:

Oh, I just figured you meant Top 5 Zelda cause it's a Zelda thread, lol

 

And I mentioned in one of my earlier posts that I preferred TP over OoT.

 

Whats your top 5 period? And why do you prefer TP over MM? I remember back on nsider like a few decades ago you were all about that MM life.

[Link, the Hero of Dreams]

No doubt nostalgia is sometimes is a factor. But, sometimes it's improving upon and differentiating from the games that come before that make recent games stand out. That's why I have a tie with 6 and 5, and why I put BOTW over LA's. Budokai 3 is a really solid fighting game that had... nearly better everything than its predecessors, while FighterZ changes a lot of stuff, but kept the essence of what a DragonBall fighting game should feel like: different play-styles, moves, combos, and characters. And while each of the games have some flaws, people will go back to them because of how much fun they are.

 

As for Link's Awakening, it was my first Zelda game. Granted, I beat Twilight Princess before beating Link's Awakening, but... I'm sorry, I just found Twilight Princess maybe... "dull"... I like Midna and Zant, but I think I was a little bored by the realistic character models and the art direction. ... I did beat A Link Between Worlds now that I think about it, but I think I would've loved it even more if I played A Link To The Past beforehand, which I never did. It's still a great game, but I feel like it would be a lot higher on everyone else's list because they played ALTTP. Although I acknowledge there's some problems with Link's Awakening, I had a blast going back to a game that I thought was SCARY AS A KID. Going forward in time like Adult Link, I was much more equipped for the journey ahead, and I was able to battle the NIGHTMARES that once haunted me as a kid. I was able to travel through the world known as Koholint with a brand new pair of eyes. I preserved, and never gave up like I did in my past. Once I finally beat the game, I felt the power of joy, relief, and happiness. To finally have a victory over that game was wonderful.

 

Breath of The Wild gave me moments of child-like wonder, curiosity, fear, and confidence that I once experienced playing Link's Awakening. Although BOTW is more in tune with the first Zelda, for me it amplified what I experienced in Link's Awakening. There was a bigger nightmare I was getting prepared for, and I was a lot more ready and experienced than I used to be in Link's Awakening. Interestingly enough, the Link in this game parallels what I once went through: he was defeated by a huge force for a long time, but woke up years later and crushed the demon that he couldn't before once he was much more skilled. I found that kind of reliability rare and unique, and not much video games can convey that kind of personal connection. That's why some other Zelda games never did it for me. Maybe I'll go back and play the Zelda games I have but never beat (SS, WW, the Oracle ones, ALTTP... ???) But, BOTW had a genuine experience that not much games like it can replicate.  

 

As for Super Mario Odyssey, I tried Super Mario 64 and its remakes, Sunshine... some of the NEW Super Mario Bros. games... some of the Advance remake series... and the 3D series, but with the exception of 3D Land, something was holding me back from beating them. I never played the NES trilogy and the SNES games cause I was born in 1990, and I don't remember why I never picked up the Galaxy series. I think it was because there was always something else that grabbed my attention at the time, which was maybe unfortunate. And I had little to no money compared to now. And maybe the controls. Super Mario Odyssey... grabbed my attention for all the time I played it. I think it might have been the guilt that I never finished a sitting of a main Mario game in my life. But, I think I had a lot more fun when I played as Mario compared to his previous games. And I think it was definitely how versatile Mario moves and how Cappy can take control of different enemies that made it a better experience. And the CA-MER-A. There's so much more, but I love this game because of how near-perfect it is! 

Edited August 28, 2018 by XLW