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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Discussion Thread


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Not surprised that Ultimate got the boot from EVO Online. As I said before I rather Ultimate with it's few offline flaws then Wii U Smash.

 

Like I don't care to an extent that even with more ppl at home this year would of been big with Ultimate but it is not worth the contestant time and money waste such resources. This will embarrass benefactors of EVO and Nintendo especially that they had to be taken out because the online for that game is that bad. Really says something Nintendo whether or not it was their decision it was smart and should be a message for them to do something about the online. This is of no fault of EVO at all, there's no blame on them. It is unfortunate but had to be done, hopeful this is a clear message for Nintendo to act sooner on this resolve, whenever that is.  

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This has been repeated ad nauseam as of late with Ultimate online is so shit that EVO can't risk in their online tournaments but on the other hand Ultimate has the greatest appeal has fighting game as whole when it comes to the world video games colliding, that's pretty much what this video talks about.

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2 hours ago, DLurkster said:

This has been repeated ad nauseam as of late with Ultimate online is so shit that EVO can't risk in their online tournaments but on the other hand Ultimate has the greatest appeal has fighting game as whole when it comes to the world video games colliding, that's pretty much what this video talks about.

 

He's partially right on this but it was more so that it was his homage to Iwata than him himself wanting it to be HIS swansong.

 

He probably did use some connections to get a lot of the 3rd party fighters in this game, Cloud, Sonic, Banjo... even getting Konami off their arse for Simon, Richter, and Bomberman usage.

 

The Smash series will continue, there is no way it ends with Ultimate.  But they have now hit the Pokemon paradox wall though, can you keep adding on or do you need to cut to add.  Do you bring back later on?  I don't know if Smash can continue as a Service game where new content just keeps on getting added because I think older things can get too out of date for where the series wants to progress.  At some point a character select screen and a stage select screen get too big to use LOL.

 

That said, they can keep adding characters and modes till they feel the need to stop.  They keep delivering the quality, there is no need to stop.

 

IMO, the only things Smash Ultimate has left to do are:

 

Metal Mario was technically a fighter in Smash 64 so I guess there is merit for a Mario Echo with him.

 

They haven't done ALL the stages yet.

 

They haven't done ALL the game modes yet.

*like break the targets et. all

 

And I think the ground breaking thing they haven't done is make Master and Crazy hand playable characters.

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Melee glitch aside, Master Hand was playable in that one level toward the end of World of Light. An extra playable boss mode would be the only way for the rest of them I guess, but meh. Some of that other remaining content you mentioned that they could still include would be nice though. I would even pay for some of it.

 

 

With cuts for a future Smash being expected, Ultimate's roster being established as a one time thing, the best case scenario for me would be keeping most of the characters, except some 3rd parties whose licenses had run out. Some of the clones/echo fighters I could go either way on, but not like they take up real resources or character slots like some used to believe. Compared to other fighters, Smash has actually had the best track record in keeping most of its cast. Even Smash 3DS/Wii U which had the most cuts were minimal compared to what other fighting series' sequels have done. Long as Sakurai's behind the wheel, a position he's never been keen on giving up so easily, I don't think there'll ever be a Smash reboot or something that some have been obsessed with the idea of after Ultimate. Reboots of any kind are only ever necessary when a series faces a major decline, but with Smash being the hit monster it is, it'll be fine.

 

But yeah, this message, all this, I had been saying for awhile, which I didn't need Max to know. He's right though; even if the online's shit and worse never improves, people will still play it for all the content and subject matter. There will never be another Smash like this one, the ultimate tribute to Iwata. Reminder too that it'll be back competitive wise when offline tournaments are possible again. Ult had pretty much the biggest scene at EVO last year. No way it's staying down for good because of being one of few to not pass the netcode test during this uncertain time.

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On top of the vid I posted, (I know that vid wasn't missing link why Ultimate is the best we'll every get despite the online, just wanted point if wasn't already covered here) Ultimate was a way tribute Iwata as well..

 

Somewhat after Ultimate released, I said I don't mind if it comes a service and I still now, that has not changed for me. What also haven't change is Nintendo stance on-going service, as mentioned in the vid and again didn't need to be mentioned but it was nice it was pointed out; Nintendo has never done on-going service in a paid aspect the only thing that comes close to that is the Splatoon series. They have continued free updated up to 2 years after game released. It took a while for Nintendo to get on the mobile gaming microtransaction wagon. I feel it may be a year or two before Nintendo starts to do that with select games that warrant like Smash really would lend itself well and why I would welcome that in Ultimate.

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54 minutes ago, purple_beard said:

@Ridley Prime

 

The only real reboot the game will have is a major roster cut to come back with new fighters.

Which, in turn will mean a stage cut, to come back with more new stages.

I do think there is some merit to redoing move sets for some legacy characters.

 

Smash has never had a major roster cut particularly though, and don't see why it would need to start now just to add in a few more newcomers. Not unless a next game rebuilt pretty much everything from the ground-up, but Smash under the direction it's been in since forever has had reused assets from game to game, making it easy to bring back most characters. Sakurai's expressively been careful when it comes to cuts which he said he doesn't like sometimes having to do, so I trust him.

 

He had similar reasoning as to why he hasn't largely changed any characters' moveset despite being a popular idea for years and years. There are some I would still like to see retooled, but I'm kinda over it. Change too much, you annoy some of the fans of old which Sakurai's well aware of. Is why we'll never have like a Ganondorf moveset that people will be happy with universally.

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I mean, realistically, who’s the least likely to come back?

 

Anyone first-or-second party is probably safe because there’s literally no reason why they can’t come back.

 

Going off of third-parties alone...

 

*Snake: Gone. Metal Gear is dead. Fuck Konami.

*Sonic: Pretty safe. The long-time rivalry with Mario and all that.

*MegamanDepends on what Capcom intends to do with the IP. Hasn’t been seen since MM11.

*Pac-Man: Even if Bamco doesn’t help out with development anymore, he could still stay in via recognizability.

*Ryu/Ken: More than likely to stay, possibly joined by a new character from Super Ultra Street Fighter V Alpha HD EX Turbo Remix Championship Edition & Knuckles Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series.

*Cloud: Could go either way. Either replaced by an FF rep with greater ties to Nintendo, or kept in to advertise future episodes of FF7R.

*Bayonetta: So long as Bayo 3 remains Switch-exclusive, there’s no real reason to cut her.

*Simon/Richter: Even if Castlevania as a game series may be dead, they could always replace them with Trevor as a tie-in to the Netflix series.

*Joker: Probably the most recognizable Atlus character. Only question is whether Sega deserves a third rep.

*Hero: Will always be huge in Japan. Worst case scenario, he might get a new alt to tie-in with Dragon Quest XII.

*Banjo: Gone. Dead franchise owned by a direct competitor who only got in due to a literal miracle.

*Terry: No idea. Don’t know how relevant SNK or Fatal Fury is right now.

 

But even if all third-parties were to be cut, that would only reduce the roster size by twelve + two Echoes.

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2 hours ago, Tyranogre said:

I mean, realistically, who’s the least likely to come back?

 

Anyone first-or-second party is probably safe because there’s literally no reason why they can’t come back.

 

Going off of third-parties alone...

 

*Snake: Gone. Metal Gear is dead. Fuck Konami.

I'll trade Snake for Bomberman.  Never liked Snake since he got in.

*Sonic: Pretty safe. The long-time rivalry with Mario and all that.

Unless something goes real bad with Sega and Nintendo he stays.  Especially if they keep pumping out Mario and Sonic at the Olympics games

*MegamanDepends on what Capcom intends to do with the IP. Hasn’t been seen since MM11.

I can't see MM being cut, but what they might do is drop him for X.

*Pac-Man: Even if Bamco doesn’t help out with development anymore, he could still stay in via recognizability.

Can't say he would be in or out,  but damn it, why isn't Mrs Pac Man an alt costume or a echo fighter already.  That said I love to play him in Smash.

*Ryu/Ken: More than likely to stay, possibly joined by a new character from Super Ultra Street Fighter V Alpha HD EX Turbo Remix Championship Edition & Knuckles Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series.

I like both.  I think Chun Li from the series is a female fighter begging to get in.  SF has done too well on Switch to drop them.  Nice troll on the game though LOL.

*Cloud: Could go either way. Either replaced by an FF rep with greater ties to Nintendo, or kept in to advertise future episodes of FF7R.

I don't think SQENIX wants to lose Cloud from Smash, but I could believe there might be a play to swap him out for another FF character.  But who?

*Bayonetta: So long as Bayo 3 remains Switch-exclusive, there’s no real reason to cut her.

I think this one is an easy cut.  Might be replaced with a female character that is more big time.  FWIW, I don't dislike using her in Smash.

*Simon/Richter: Even if Castlevania as a game series may be dead, they could always replace them with Trevor as a tie-in to the Netflix series.

Trevor an echo of Simon/Richter or something totally different?  I could see the play being made though.  I think Simon would stay though, he's OG to the NES.

*Joker: Probably the most recognizable Atlus character. Only question is whether Sega deserves a third rep.

Joker fans want him to stay and a lot of pros like using him.  I'm fine with him leaving or staying.

*Hero: Will always be huge in Japan. Worst case scenario, he might get a new alt to tie-in with Dragon Quest XII.

I feel you here.  He might get fine tuned or they do some other costumes... but yeah... I don't see him being dropped.

*Banjo: Gone. Dead franchise owned by a direct competitor who only got in due to a literal miracle.

This one is tricky for me.  Banjo so fits, but if they aren't going to do anything with that franchise then yeah...  then again, I bet they were totally surprised about how much love Banjo got--maybe they have misjudged the demand for the series and will do something with him.

*Terry: No idea. Don’t know how relevant SNK or Fatal Fury is right now.

Terry is a tough call too.  He has his merit, and I like him a lot but, I wonder if they want to explore other fighting game franchises for characters.  Mortal Kombat, Tekken, Killer Instinct, .... whatever is cool these days....

 

But even if all third-parties were to be cut, that would only reduce the roster size by twelve + two Echoes.

 

 

That said, I wonder how this would play out in the world post Smash Ultimate and DLC checks being cashed LOL.

 

I mean, they dropped Mewto and brought him back as a paid DLC character.  Same for Roy.

 

Somehow Pichu was worth it!

 

Somehow Dr. Mairo was worth it!

 

Fire Emblem character overkill!  ( on the real though, I love to play Roy and Corrin a lot)

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Ty has it pretty much spot on for the future of 3rd party characters.

 

As for reboots, replacement or who new to add; it's not that Ultimate is not even 2yrs old yet but we're counting before eggs from a chicken hatch as suppose counting chickens before they hatch. So pretty much we are talking about what the chicken (Ultimate) might lay in the future. (eggs=characters) That is too premature to do what if like that. I don't like speculation when it's for the sake of it and nothing else, it's irksome to me so some degree. And this to me qualifies as it.

 

We all know what Sakurai might do next, that whatever we decide we will be confused by it at first as usual then realize it was for the best cause he's been at the helm for 21 years now so whatever he decides it will be the best for the series. Honestly I think a reboot is the last thing he'll do, as it was said here earlier, you only do that when a series wane so that is why it is last resort not because it will manage the loss of characters for next game to mitigate. That makes no sense to me, at best it will be a balance approach of replacement and new additions, while keeping mind of character legacy and relevancy to consider going forward.

 

Honesty, I think that is how they will do it.

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Not to derail this thread but there's another Nintendo delivery in June as well and that is the first part of Pokemon SW/SH expansion pass; Isle of armor. Tho rumors say and Nintendo have not yet confirmed no direct in June, if they are really doing these shadow drop announcements, is that is what we are going to expect for the ARMS character reveal and showcase and same goes for Pokemon SW/SH expansion pass release date?

 

As of right now if you look up the expansion pass for Ilse of armor it says June 30th, rumors put it June 19th or June 26th, which are both Fridays. Typical releases for Nintendo and June 30th is a Tuesday of everyone else who releases games on so if we have that as indicator would that mean we could see the ARMS character come out in the first weeks of June around when E3 would of been then?

Edited by DLurkster
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A week late about this but I thought I put this up if anyone thinks they can win the codes for ARMS, Splatoon 2 and Super Smash Bros. Ultimate fighter pass vol. 2.

 

There's a battlefly NA tournament for Ultimate starting May 30th and goes to Jun 21st.

 

The weekends it's playing til June 21st: May 30-31, June 6-7, June 13-17 and June 20-21.

 

As mentioned one of the prizes is volume 2 pass for Ultimate fighters pass, since the last day is on June 21 then I think the ARMS character has to be coming out June 26th. Why have tourney win the pass but first character releases before one can win one? That's the logic I'm going with the release of the character.

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