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Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Discussion Thread: Next fighter is Tekken over Smash ITS ALIVE


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Didn't really pay attention of that coincidence that all Smash last character reveals or unlocked were underwhelming some way or another.

 

Hype responsibly.

 

I have my hopes of what I want to come as the last fighter but I won't necessarily throw a fit it isn't who I expected. Just accept as is and that the roster of Ultimate to most is what ppl got with the base roster some in either DLC packs or whatever. For anyone to complain after the packs are done, are ungrateful sons of bitches, like c'mon?!? Sakurai worked his ass off to pull these characters into Smash and their quirks as well. Reflect on that.

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From what I've seen, the people who haven't reached the acceptance phase do mental gymnastics with “Sakurai’s been flippant on things before, so nothing he says can be true or taken at face value!”, but it's been long enough. By standards of how long fighting games are supported with DLC, Ultimate had a pretty good run, and I hope that's how it is with any Smash going forward despite how the base roster is; DLC is to be expected with any such game now regardless.

 

I like how in this, Ultimate's among the middle; not too long, not too short, but just right.

 

201482551_539181360826438_2575180753857368542_n.thumb.png.11346e3886642014f81823a3b3b904fb.png

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26 minutes ago, Ridley Prime said:

From what I've seen, the people who haven't reached the acceptance phase do mental gymnastics with “Sakurai’s been flippant on things before, so nothing he says can be true or taken at face value!”, but it's been long enough. By standards of how long fighting games are supported with DLC, Ultimate had a pretty good run, and I hope that's how it is with any Smash going forward despite how the base roster is; DLC is to be expected with any such game now regardless.

 

I like how in this, Ultimate's among the middle; not too long, not too short, but just right.

 

201482551_539181360826438_2575180753857368542_n.thumb.png.11346e3886642014f81823a3b3b904fb.png

 

 

Good graph there, but also remember they had the covid pause to the events too... so it could have wrapped up earlier....

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They also could've revealed the last two characters of FP2 at E3 like how they've done a double reveal at other E3's (Hero and Banjo), but here we are. They wanted to stretch it out as long as possible till the end. Even if the last character wasn't as ready or finished to be out as Kazuya, they still could've shown a little bit of it; the bare minimum amount, but I guess they figure nothing keeps discussion for a game going like speculation, though am ready for this to be over.

 

And we still got four characters last year despite covid (though Byleth was before the world went to shit with it technically). Smash's timetable wasn't nearly as affected by the pandemic as other games.

Edited by Ridley Prime
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2 minutes ago, purple_beard said:

 

 

Good graph there, but also remember they had the covid pause to the events too... so it could have wrapped up earlier....

Yes, good graph and like RP said right in the middle when it comes to DLC longevity.

 

As a direct response to PB, no even without covid the plan to end the DLC pack 2 was gonna end this year. I don't think again with the pandemic it would of gone faster, the development of DLC characters for pack 1 came out in the same fashion as DLC pack 2.

 

Sakurai said it himself, that if he was making the game from scratch their would of been considerable delay, what was slightly cumbersome is communications between the teams doing the DLC and some Sakurai presents done from Sakurai's home and no translated VO. Because that takes time and ppl, which weren't luxuries we could risk around the start of the pandemic.

 

Here's the proof:

250448472_ProofofSmash.thumb.png.2a5e339dc33b2bb3da3d9db22cdf7936.png

The date this was officially shared and when it would initially end before we knew we were gonna be in pandemic.

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So with another Smash esque rival that is Nickelodeon All Stars and it boasting rollback netcode, it begs the question, should Sakurai try again with it or step up their online game somehow? Even if it’s bare minimum improvements like an invite feature added which was later given to Super Mario Party. 

 

Rollback is something most current fighting games don’t still have either to be fair, and it took a pandemic for devs to begin to realize how important good netcode is, but I don’t know. Feel they could still win more people over with some quality of life touches after the last character is done, and if another party fighter like Nickelodeon could have rollback, so could Smash maybe if they try hard enough.

 

Or Nintendo can just put blinders on again, ignoring what others are doing in the gaming space. That could work for them too, as they already have our money.

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What is rollback netcode, exactly?

 

My only knowledge of that term is from that incident a few years ago where this site got hacked and plastered with shock images, so Kodiack had to "roll back" the site to a time period from before the hack. I assume that in the context of online games, it means something different? y;

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I don't know where the term "rollback" came to be but correct me if I am wrong; in order for rollback to be in any competent side-scrolling fighting game with online, the game has to be made in mind with frames to support rollback. That's part of the reason after the release of Ultimate, it couldn't be implemented or at least that easily. As I said not sure which correct but either I call BS on Sakurai and Nintendo if not true. Tho despite that I think there's some truth to making a game in mind for rollback netcode.

 

Any fighting side-scrolling game with online that came out during the 2017-2018 is excusable to an extent not having rollback netcode. Adverse to that is true that any released after those years should have it.

 

I just look at it by development time, any game that released in the 2017-2018 took like 2 or 3 years to make. So any after that or still being developed beyond this year should have rollback net. It is not the be all end all that will help lag and all but it will help to a degree with, that and ppl just using a wired connection. Even so again wired helps to but the internet is a fluid system there's gonna be hiccups base on your ISP and how far you are from your opponent. All in all the above helps what makes these experiences a little better for all.

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A video that briefly explains rollback better than I can put it into words.

 

 

 

And yeah, I use a wired lan adapter for Switch, which definitely helps circumvent the otherwise bad online. The only downside is that the slower of the routers connected in a session determines the bandwidth speed since it's still peer-to-peer, but better than dealing with the other issues you would have while playing wireless.

 

Some other fighting games got rollback in a later update. For what it's worth too, SNES games on Switch online apparently have rollback, so it's not like Nintendo doesn't know what it is.

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I'm aware that rollback, like in the name means going back to match the frames you see on your side and that it is the same for your opponent. I am also aware and most ppl should know that P2P is what run most online game, not just fighting games. Since we talking about Ultimate that's just fact and has I mentioned and it brought up, having a wired connection helps, every little bit helps but in the end you are at the mercy of connection on the other side because P2P.

 

I didn't know the NSO have rollback, is that for the online multiplayer for a few games or when your rewind the game?

 

As for fighting games getting updates for rollback, aware of that but I don't know how does that come to be. Again not sure if Nintendo is BSing that you can't just put in rollback but I have to think there's more to just applying to any side-scrolling fighting game online. It can't be that easy as the vid above explains, that much we don't know should be acknowledged is the how?

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Yeah, rollback is for the few NES/SNES games that have 2 player online from what’s been said. Before I learned it, had noticed when playing some of them with a friend that there was seemingly no input lag or anything like with actual Switch games, but figured it was because those were just older games. Could be part of the reason though, in that they were easier to implement rollback for because those games are ancient in comparison. 
 

So if like Nintendo’s biggest online Switch games never get rollback, I’ll understand, but would at least like there to be an attempt, ya know? Especially when we’re paying for the online. I believe Sakurai about having tried rollback before, only to have run into difficulties with it. Was wondering if it was something he should reevaluate though, given Nickelodeon All Stars and some stuff that have it now.

Edited by Ridley Prime
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Never had a chance or more like opportunity to play the any of the NSO games online multiplayer, I was aware ppl said or Nintendo (don't really remember what was brought up first) that there's no lag and just like RP, I thought it was because the games were old so that is why it is smooth.

 

Tho, we all know it will be nice for Nintendo to equate some value of their online for better features, I think we all know not to hold our breaths. I know I am not and will believe it when it actual arrives, no rumors or it is coming soon.

 

Sakurai is man who always to one up himself where every he can, if he is to do another Smash bros. It will definitely have rollback netcode. As I said this game was in development for while before the Switch even came to be and shortly after the DLC wrapped up on 3DS/Wii U. Sakurai was simply building on the foundation from that game with some modest advancements. Since he know it takes time for him to do most things, he probably already planned what he was gonna do with Ultimate once 3DS/Wii U wrapped, I think unfortunately rollback netcode wasn't one them.

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