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After 8 years, I finally beat Majora's Mask


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Fierce Deity and all. I have abandoned so many playthroughs across the N64 and 3DS versions, but this week I stuck with it so I could say I've beaten all Zelda games. I'd make a video but I don't have capture footage. tl;dr feel free to vent with me.

 

Majora's Mask is an expertly designed game which perfectly achieves everything it sets out to do. Unfortunately, what it set out to do was to be a very, very bad game.

 

I'm going to talk more analytically about how the three-day limit results in designs that waste the player's time, repeating the same actions ad nauseum, mainly outside of quests. The cycle makes for a unique story, but Majora's Mask is not a book. It's not a movie. It's a video game, possibly the WORST medium for this kind of story. It's interactive waiting. Waiting Simulator 2000.

 

Because, with that time limit as its challenge, this game is designed to literally waste the player's time. To waste your time as a cost, as a punishment--not in the sense that this game is so much fun time just flies right by. Nope--just to make you repeat simple actions for a few minutes until you're allowed to get back to playing. This game wastes your time in the most literal sense of the word. It's infuriating, and it's insulting. Majora's Mask thinks it's so good that you should have to button mash through hours of cutscenes just for the privilege of getting to play it.



 

Time is the most valuable resource any of us has. In the entertainment business, if you're wasting even a second of someone's time, you're out the door. When I make a video I'll debate over whether to add a two-second clip, while Majora's Mask is over here forcing you to spend another ten minutes on another rematch with the same simple boss fight.

 

This design exists because Majora's Mask had to make a full game with limited time and resources. Several tricks were used in order to artificially extend the game's length, and while many of these tricks are quite genius on Nintendo's part in terms of working with limitations, that does not excuse how EXCRUCIATING they are from a gameplay perspective.

 

Fall in the swamp's poison waters and Link is stunned while he slowly dies. Slip in Snowhead and fall all the way back down to the basement floor. You can solve the Stone Tower's switch puzzles in the blink of an eye, but carrying out those solutions costs you minutes of triggering the same cutscene over and over until you're done. Oh, and all of these puzzles and hazards will reset every time you leave the room.

 

Timed minigames with no killswitch, forcing you to put the game down and wait it out if you miss a shot? A giant cliff with a maze you have to climb through? Another labyrinth forcing you to repeat the whole thing if you take one wrong turn, or fail one of several jumps due to a bad camera and jank mechanics? It has three rooms, but you'll be repeating each of them ten times, because that's "challenging". And yes, each attempt at each room comes with a mandatory cutscene. You spent two hours in this dungeon and just hit day 4? Maybe you'll redo it faster on your next attempt!

 

There is nothing fun and nothing rewarding about any of this. And none of it's necessary! Every single choice made it in designing this game contains some unnecessary obstacle to artificially extend the game's length, even in the very last level when the cycle has stopped ticking. Not one of these obstacles is challenging--they solely exist to waste your time, to make the game feel longer.

 

This is one of the main reasons why we all hate Skyward Sword--hours of interactive waiting, when we already know exactly what simple challenges await us. Why should I dump so many hours into your lousy game for the privilege of playing that one good bit, when I could play another game that actually respects my time and offers me something new?

 

Solving a puzzle is fun. Solving a puzzle and then wasting five to ten minutes convincing the game you've solved it is not fun, and it's even more not fun when you have to "solve" the same puzzle three more times.

 

Visually, everything about the game is downright repulsive. I'll spare you any examples beyond the agonized and screaming face which is permanently glued to your character's back three-quarters in. The only upside is that you don't have time to be repulsed by these visuals--due to the three day cycle you are forced to spend every second of this game in a frantic, nauseating rush.

 

In terms of audio, I played most of this game on mute. All tracks are similarly grotesque, grating and repetitive. Transformations get freaky sound effects on their footsteps. Several recurring characters have disgusting moans, etc. The N64 Zeldas are not known for their music or sounds.

 

Clearly not a horror fan. I don't care if it's meant to look like a pile of mutant turds or it's meant to sound like nails on a chalkboard. It is what it is, and it is deeply disturbing.

 

Before finally clearing this game on at least my fifth attempt, I would say that Majora's Mask is a good game--just not a good Zelda game. Well, after sticking through it to the bitter end, no--it's a lot worse than that. Majora's Mask was never made to be a good game. Nobody would ever talk about this game if it didn't carry the Zelda branding. I love nostalgia as much as the next dork, but let's remember it for what it really was. Majora's Mask is an interesting concept, but a garbage excuse for a video game.

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I feel my experience with MM would improve if it had a fast forward button on sidequests to a point I already beat. Triggering spring and the kafei quest were the worst offenders.

 

Also, I agree MM has mediocre dungeons. Like, all or them are bad in some form. Stone Tower Temple had the 'control statue' gimmick but you need to do it as all four Link's.

 

There's definitely some good ideas in MM and there's a real argument that the groundhog loop is especially suited for video games due to their nonlinear nature. But the game lacks polish, in the end, it's probably my least favorite Zelda.

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10 minutes ago, Princess Minerva said:

There's definitely some good ideas in MM and there's a real argument that the groundhog loop is especially suited for video games due to their nonlinear nature. But the game lacks polish, in the end, it's probably my least favorite Zelda.

Most criticisms of the time loop I see stop at "I don't like repeating quests". But the real damage comes from how the time limit causes everything in the game to be built around wasting the player's time so that the time limit is an actual threat. Repeating Kafei and Anju's quest a few times was nothing compared to the pain of every dungeon slog. And for all I'd heard of that quest, it's much simpler than I expected.

 

It's totally possible to make a well-functioning game based on a time loop--just not one that blatantly wastes the player's time like Majora's Mask. But even then, I can't see any way for the end product to not still suffer for that scenario choice. Even if it's streamlined to the max, the flow you've built is still just an ornate Magikarp Jump in the end.

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I don't find the quest difficult as much as tedious. With the half time song and the fact there's other songs that serve as checkpoints so you can usually give yourself ~2.5 hours for a dungeon is usually enough. Three only one that I found stressful was the water dungeon and only because I couldn't figure out a gimmick with the boss.

Edited by Princess Minerva
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I finally beat it last year and like... wasn't bothered by the time limit whatsoever. I had to reset once I found the dungeon before I started. So long as I used the time-slowdown song, I never had to reset it and painfully lose a lot of progress cause of time. I didn't really feel rushed. I got stuck on stuff. I never looked up how to do anything. Still, the dungeons weren't long or hard enough for me to be like "oh fuck only a couple hours left aaaaaa." I was comfortably at the boss at that point every time.

I wish I could say I never had to at all, but I softlocked the game once on the fuckin Kappa/frog thing boss in dungeon 3 LOL. Made for a good highlight though.
The cool part of Majora for me is all the unique sidequests. The main story is whatever; just slightly more interesting than regular Zelda fare.
Unfortunately I'm an idiot and couldn't figure out half of them so I didn't get as much out of the game as I wanted. I didn't want to use a guide lol
 

Edited by Pichi
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16 minutes ago, Pichi said:

I finally beat it last year and like... wasn't bothered by the time limit whatsoever. I had to reset once I found the dungeon before I started. So long as I used the time-slowdown song, I never had to reset it and painfully lose a lot of progress cause of time. I didn't really feel rushed. I got stuck on stuff. I never looked up how to do anything. Still, the dungeons weren't long or hard enough for me to be like "oh fuck only a couple hours left aaaaaa." I was comfortably at the boss at that point every time.

I wish I could say I never had to at all, but I softlocked the game once on the fuckin Kappa/frog thing boss in dungeon 3 LOL. Made for a good highlight though.
The cool part of Majora for me is all the unique sidequests. The main story is whatever; just slightly more interesting than regular Zelda fare.
Unfortunately I'm an idiot and couldn't figure out half of them so I didn't get as much out of the game as I wanted. I didn't want to use a guide lol
 

I got a lot of side quests done from the Bomber Gang hints. The two pairs of them on other side of the town will give you a different hint during morning/noon/night of each day, from what I could tell. They'll approach you if they have a new hint. One of a hundred changes the 3DS remake brought in to make it more bearable.

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Oh that's neat. Nah I played the ol' gold cart lol. Still managed an alright amount. 
I'm not a horror fan but still appreciated the atmosphere and all. I definitely can't argue against your points of shit wasting time.
Modern Zelda loves to do that for some reason.
I just liked what Majora was doing enough to be cool with it. 
Except for that softlock man that was some garbage.

Also this boss made me wanna kill myself in general. Annoying bosses with attacks that take like 5+ seconds to damage you open the fuckin salt floodgates for me. and way too many god damn games have them. ugh
 

 

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I believe it was either last year or the year before where I finally completed it for the first time. Let's go with last year? 

 

I remember renting it as a kid from Blockbuster and never wanted to leave the first clock town. It seemed so peaceful and the atmosphere is great. But once the final day hit I was like forget this, and warped back to the first day. I guess I was too scared to run out of time and have the moon hit. 

 

Playing it now, it could be pretty tedious at times, but I do appreciate it for what it is. It's a pretty dark game so I can see why people get turned off from it. 

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2 hours ago, XLW said:

If you want a guy who really hates MM, check out the Game Grumps playthrough. Arin reeeeeeaaally makes it clear that he doesn’t like it.

That's the nudge that got me to pick this game back up and 100% it. I often disagree with the way Arin considers games, and it really doesn't help his points that he's always ignoring instructions. But he is good at pointing out things that don't need to happen, and those unnecessary obstacles are the backbone of Majora's Mask. (Also I can't sit through Let's Plays of people slowly reading the text to me.)

 

17 minutes ago, Eliwoodman12 said:

I believe it was either last year or the year before where I finally completed it for the first time. Let's go with last year? 

 

I remember renting it as a kid from Blockbuster and never wanted to leave the first clock town. It seemed so peaceful and the atmosphere is great. But once the final day hit I was like forget this, and warped back to the first day. I guess I was too scared to run out of time and have the moon hit. 

 

Playing it now, it could be pretty tedious at times, but I do appreciate it for what it is. It's a pretty dark game so I can see why people get turned off from it. 

I was 100% that kid. I'd often just replay easy beginning levels I liked when others were scary and challenging.

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WHAT THE HELL PEOPLE?!

 

Majora's Mask is a phenomenal game AND Zelda game. Time is really a non-issue. You do a cycle of prep and getting to a dungeon. Go back in time. Do a cycle completing the dungeon. Repeat. The only boss that needs to be beaten more than once is Goht, but it's a decently fun battle. Also, the 3DS version basically throws it in your face about slowing down time and speeding up time let's you go to a specific time, making it even easier.

 

Honesty, the only gripe I ever really had with this game was how they handled 'Elegy of Emptiness' and the need to use at least 3 Links to solve some puzzles - that really needs some heavy streamlining. But I mean, you do know you can just tap the button once Link starts transforming between forms to skip the whole thing, right?

 

I mean you like what you like. I don't feel they intentionally waste the players time (with maybe that first 3 day cycle if you already know what you're doing), as there's a ton of stuff to do I'm usually zipping between sidequests and peoples schedules. But this game is close to 20 years old and although I feel it holds up well, I can see why some people wouldn't.

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43 minutes ago, EH_STEVE said:

WHAT THE HELL PEOPLE?!

 

Majora's Mask is a phenomenal game AND Zelda game. Time is really a non-issue. You do a cycle of prep and getting to a dungeon. Go back in time. Do a cycle completing the dungeon. Repeat. The only boss that needs to be beaten more than once is Goht, but it's a decently fun battle. Also, the 3DS version basically throws it in your face about slowing down time and speeding up time let's you go to a specific time, making it even easier.

 

Honesty, the only gripe I ever really had with this game was how they handled 'Elegy of Emptiness' and the need to use at least 3 Links to solve some puzzles - that really needs some heavy streamlining. But I mean, you do know you can just tap the button once Link starts transforming between forms to skip the whole thing, right?

 

I mean you like what you like. I don't feel they intentionally waste the players time (with maybe that first 3 day cycle if you already know what you're doing), as there's a ton of stuff to do I'm usually zipping between sidequests and peoples schedules. But this game is close to 20 years old and although I feel it holds up well, I can see why some people wouldn't.

You only have to beat each boss once... if you complete the dungeon quickly and know exactly how to optimally complete every quest requiring post-boss environments. The vast majority of players do not. I had to beat each boss at least three times, because I wasn't playing with a guide.

 

I do know you can skip mask transformation cutscenes, but that's still another unnecessary step (just like having to play another Song of Time at the start of every cycle), and songs can't be skipped, and cutscenes for switches can't be skipped, and story cutscenes can't be skipped, and that at all adds up. So much of my experience with Majora's Mask was little more than interactive waiting.

 

Time in the context of the three-day limit isn't often an issue. Time in the context of real life is absolutely an issue. Puzzles and environments take WAY more time than they ever should have to, solely to fluff up the game's length. I don't enjoy having to shoot a magic arrow, wait for a platform to come to me, ride it to the top, shoot another magic arrow, take a leap of faith, miss, swim back to land, shoot a magic arrow, wait for a platform, ride it, shoot a magic arrow, take a leap of faith, miss again, swim back to land, leave the room, wander around, find a pot, get some magic, leave that room, come back, break the pot again, find no magic, leave the room, come back, break the pot again, find magic, loop around to return to the original room, shoot a magic arrow, wait for a platform, ride it, shoot a magic arrow, take a leap of faith, finally make it, then continue to the next room

 

when I could've just taken one simple jump and been onto the next challenge. That's the kind of game design I'm venting about here.

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I had to beat every boss at least twice, except maybe the stone tower one (I don't think there's much to do in its post-game environment). Goht had to beaten seven times because there is too much to do in its post boss environment.

 

And, yes, with a guide and careful planning/optimization I might have been able to do each boss once but so could quality of life game design that simply let you skip the boss upon refighting it by adding some time to your countdown.

Edited by Princess Minerva
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58 minutes ago, Destiny Hero said:

You only have to beat each boss once... if you complete the dungeon quickly and know exactly how to optimally complete every quest requiring post-boss environments. The vast majority of players do not. I had to beat each boss at least three times, because I wasn't playing with a guide.

 

I do know you can skip mask transformation cutscenes, but that's still another unnecessary step (just like having to play another Song of Time at the start of every cycle), and songs can't be skipped, and cutscenes for switches can't be skipped, and story cutscenes can't be skipped, and that at all adds up. So much of my experience with Majora's Mask was little more than interactive waiting.

 

Time in the context of the three-day limit isn't often an issue. Time in the context of real life is absolutely an issue. Puzzles and environments take WAY more time than they ever should have to, solely to fluff up the game's length. I don't enjoy having to shoot a magic arrow, wait for a platform to come to me, ride it to the top, shoot another magic arrow, take a leap of faith, miss, swim back to land, shoot a magic arrow, wait for a platform, ride it, shoot a magic arrow, take a leap of faith, miss again, swim back to land, leave the room, wander around, find a pot, get some magic, leave that room, come back, break the pot again, find no magic, leave the room, come back, break the pot again, find magic, loop around to return to the original room, shoot a magic arrow, wait for a platform, ride it, shoot a magic arrow, take a leap of faith, finally make it, then continue to the next room

 

when I could've just taken one simple jump and been onto the next challenge. That's the kind of game design I'm venting about here.

You don't HAVE to slow down time each time, and you can skip those cutscenes... Story cutscenes seems like more of a pedantic complaint here as boatloads of games have things way worse and since there's next to no loading here you save a lot of time that other games hit you with.

 

I have no idea what puzzle you're even referencing here with shooting magic arrows and taking leaps of faith... Nothing is coming to mind here. The only 'leap of faith' I ever really recall is for a single fairy in Snowhead, and even then it's a calculated leap of faith that can actually be circumvented with the Scarecrow's Song.

 

I mean all games, especially of this time period, had these niggling issues but asking for a "fast forward" button or a "I know this, can I skip it" option - I don't think that's wholly on the designers, but the patience of the player as well. 

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30 minutes ago, Princess Minerva said:

I had to beat every boss at least twice, except maybe the stone tower one (I don't think there's much to do in its post-game environment). Goht had to beaten seven times because there is too much to do in its post boss environment.

 

And, yes, with a guide and careful planning/optimization I might have been able to do each boss once but so could quality of life game design that simply let you skip the boss upon refighting it by adding some time to your countdown.

I don't think they'd have to be skipped outright. Goht's battle with the mini Goron race was really fun and unique--it stands up very well to repeat playthroughs. But then it gets the Majora's Mask treatment and we have to repeat not just shooting the eye three times, but tackling the monster four times. Even from the start I can't enjoy it because I'm already dreading the slog.

 

In a similar vein, the Twinmold fight was one of the most exhilarating battles I've ever had in a Zelda game... for the first two minutes. Then we move on to the Giant's Mask section which is an utter nightmare in every way. It should have taken me from awe to screaming in excitement--instead I wanted to scream in anger. If the designers weren't so obsessed with fluffing the game's length, they could've had something really enjoyable.

 

@EH_STEVE I was specifically referring to a room I had just finished in the water temple. Though I can give so many more examples of this kind of design. For example, the time it takes to slowly climb up that Goron cliff with the Lens of Truth, and how much longer it takes before you've memorized the correct path. You finally get to the top and you get the hot spring water. Then you look for a place to take it to, and right when you finally get there it cools down, so now you have to backtrack through the whole way, climb the cliff AGAIN, get more water, and repeat. And then I found out that the ice I was trying to melt couldn't be melted in that way at all, though I was never given any indication that this ice couldn't be melted. A winding boardwalk in the swamp temple designed to be JUST long enough that you can't carry a torch there, but feel free to ruin the entire length five times before you realize that your torch will always burn up just one second before your goal.

 

Or wandering around the Stone Temple for hours, having to complete all of its "puzzles" over and over, until learning that there was one chest on the busy ceiling of this one alternative entrance to this one room that you can Hookshot onto and end up in a totally new and unseeable part of the room. Or that you could've been punching the pillar at Snowhead, though there's no precedent showing that you can do this. (Except a hint from Tatl, though I never even bothered approaching the pillar because nothing about it indicated I could interact with it.)

 

You've clearly played this game enough times to know the correct paths and the shortcuts, and those do go a long way in making the game bearable. But you're not seeing how agonizing and vague the game is to those who have not yet figured it out. Every small mistake is punished to hell and back, and when these punishments add up they become exponentially more infuriating. Not everyone has your level of control over these wonky N64 physics.

Edited by Destiny Hero
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ooh, that's a hot take innit theydonothing;

 

The time structure in MM is one of the most brilliant gameplay decisions I've ever seen because without it the rest of the game becomes impossible to exist.  The sidequests wouldn't be as interesting or enriching as they are if they didn't have a schedule to adhere to and play out through, where you watch how these people's lives unfold; everything the characters do in the game is nuanced around its structure and changes depending on what you do.  The game for being two decades old gave the player some sense of agency that they were affecting things, even if the world hit a big reset button every 72 minutes.  While the overarching story is standard "end of the world" Zelda fare, it's brought to life through watching how the characters in the game deal with it, either being oblivious, fearful, superstitious or hopeless.  It was able to create a handful of isolated stories and tragedies in the game that actually instilled a sense of dread or darkness into the world, and giving the world that much character was only made possible by going "how are these three days going to play out for all of these people"?

 

Most of the dungeons save maybe the last two are designed to be well-completed in a full time cycle, and if you can't the game gives you tools to slow down for twice as much time.  If you don't want to wait around for an event, you can jump forward 12 hours.  Most of the game is streamlined in a way where upon going through cycles again you learn how to circumvent, skip, and avoid a lot of things and since the game is generally designed to be played in hour-increments, I feel it's very respectful of what it expects the player to accomplish whenever you go through a cycle; I never felt like I didn't accomplish SOMETHING by the end of one.  Zelda is frequently overrated for it's "challenge" (psst the games are generally linear and piss easy in almost all circumstances) and Majora's Mask just manages to go from "wow this is braindead easy" to "oh okay i have to think, shit", in really only the last two dungeons tbh.  I don't know, it honestly just sounds like you suck if you're not completing dungeons or fighting the boss on time enough that it becomes a problem because that's the hypothetical problem I heard people put forth but almost nobody ever actually complained about in practice. y;

 

Some of the reactions I see to the game both here and elsewhere makes me glad that despite the OP, we're in general over shitting on the game though.  It was controversial when it came out just because it was nothing like anybody ever played, especially not a sequel to OCARINA OF TIME, BEST GAME EVEEEEEEEEEER, the only people I see who don't like it nowadays don't like it because it doesn't have any of the traditional boring-ass nuance normal, safe Zelda games have.  The fact that it's deeply loved and often in the conversation for being the best game in the series despite being so drastically different than most of them warms my heart. y;

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You're forgetting though, that I too played this for the first at one point, and it was on the N64, and guideless. But never had this problems.

 

Climbing the cliff? I looked at a distance before I started. Memorizing the path? Well there's only 3 intersections, Left-Right-Left. Easy peasey. Following the game's guide of Tatl, talking to people, etc. the first hot spring water part really only requires you to climb twice. You go the once, it will probably cool off. The Gorons tell you about the Elder. You look for him and find him. You go get the water to melt him. And that's provided you didn't find the glaring melt-able ice leading to a second hot spring.

 

The swamp part with the torch. I think that's part puzzle. I was trying to run the distance too, then I moved the stone into a better place and could make the 'run' very easily to the next torch.

 

They zoom in and really focus on that particular chest, and Tatl even targets it for you, I think she even tells you to hookshot it.

 

Punching the pillar in Snowhead just came second nature to me, I don't think I listened to Tatl on it. It was clearly different than other sections of the pillar and Goron-punching things seemed to be a focus in the temple, so I punched it. Lining up the right height of the pillar stumped me the first time.

 

Link's movements and no proper free-roam camera DEFINITELY make lining up Link's running and jumping a pain in the ass. Especially Goron-rolling jumps. And falling in a few places IS very painful. But I chalk that up to "product of its time" and it's something multiple replays have allowed me to easily overcome (ex: I wear Bunny Hood 24/7 and can run Link directly towards the camera and still make turns with precision where they need it).

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