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Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo Switch Discussion


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@Cryptic The increases are larger than you estimated (unless you're just counting net increase) because you forgot to count cut characters--especially cut clones. Brawl added 18 characters and Smash 4 added 16 at launch plus 5 DLC characters. In that total includes three clones for brawl (lucas, T Link, and wolf) and two clones for Smash 4 (Lucina and Dark Pit). 

 

But yeah, you made your point. If they can copy-and-paste the roster over no problem, 70ish isn't as outlandish. I thought Smash 4 had 50ish characters, not 60ish, probably because I was using the pre-DLC number. 

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21 minutes ago, Carl321 said:

I'm excited by the idea of a Smash game NOT being arbitrarily limited by a less powerful handheld. Smash 4 is definitely the least memorable Smash for me (I couldn't tell you half the characters' final Smashes) and I attribute that to it being split in two

 

That said, if this somehow isn't a new iteration I'm not buying it. If it wasn't a memorable experience the first time it won't be the second time. The engine is highly scalable from what I hear so they don't need to build a new one from the ground up- it just needs to feel and look enough like a new game.

Copouts like turning Break the Targets into Angry Birds also took away from that magic. Smash Run was about the only real memorable thing from SSB4 for me that was new, regardless of the cast. Also liked the custom moves in concept, but its execution was lacking to a point, and with some of the perhaps unneeded development time that they took up (no one used them after awhile), won't have a problem if they don't return. For all of 4's faults with being held back by the 3DS though, I still appreciate the gameplay improvements and things from Brawl that it changed/fixed (Samus and ZSS being completely separate, etc).

 

There's plenty other things on the Switch for me to look forward to, so I won't feel too bothered if Smash with its content (or lack thereof) doesn't quite interest me enough to buy again. Nevertheless, I urge everyone to keep their expectations in check regardless of what we end up getting... The popular pipe dream characters of ours will still have some state of the art mods anyway if worse comes to worse.

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I purposely tried to be conservative.  Yeah, I knew they cut some characters between games, but then I also knew there were clones in the mix that took less work than full characters, so rather than account for all of that nonsense I just went with net increase.  I could have even guessed like 12-13 new characters, but I wanted to keep my expectations relatively low, so I went with 10ish and am sticking with 10ish for now.

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1 minute ago, Ridley Prime said:

Copouts like turning Break the Targets into Angry Birds also took away from that magic. Smash Run was about the only real memorable thing from SSB4 for me that was new, regardless of the cast. Also liked the custom moves in concept, but its execution was lacking to a point, and with some of the perhaps unneeded development time that they took up (no one used them after awhile), won't have a problem if they don't return. For all of 4's faults with being held back by the 3DS though, I still appreciate the gameplay improvements and things from Brawl that it changed/fixed (Samus and ZSS being completely separate, etc).

 

There's plenty other things on the Switch for me to look forward to, so I won't feel too bothered if Smash with its content (or lack thereof) doesn't quite interest me enough to buy again. Nevertheless, I urge everyone to keep their expectations in check regardless of what we end up getting... The popular pipe dream characters of ours will still have some state of the art mods anyway if worse comes to worse.

Smash 4 definitely had some improvements over Brawl- namely the physics. I feel like they found a pretty decent medium between Melee's speed and Brawl's... whatever happens when you're not tripping. There's definitely some stuff that could use polish and that "magic" as you mention.

 

It's nice that the Gamecube adapter currently works with the Switch. I hear good things about the pro controller but I just love my muscle memory.

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One of my hopes for this game are that they get off their rear ends and actually develop SKINS for Samus. As nice as the alt colors are I would really love for them to make the Light Suit, Dark Suit, PED, Fusion Suit, etc. as accurate models. The tech is definitely there and modders have been doing it for ages. I also hope Samus isn't based on the Other M design but the Prime 4 design. I am, of course, banking on at least a trailer or screenshot of Prime 4 at E3 so we should at least know what she'll look like by the time Smash launches. We'll have to see.

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1 minute ago, Carl321 said:

Smash 4 definitely had some improvements over Brawl- namely the physics. I feel like they found a pretty decent medium between Melee's speed and Brawl's... whatever happens when you're not tripping. There's definitely some stuff that could use polish and that "magic" as you mention.

 

It's nice that the Gamecube adapter currently works with the Switch. I hear good things about the pro controller but I just love my muscle memory.

I agree, personally Smash 4 is probably my favorite "base gameplay" of the Smash series. Faster and more exciting than Brawl but it also doesn't require learning and really mastering, advanced techniques to even be on an even playing field like Melee. If Sakurai and the Smash team feel the same way it could be that the base mechanics are pretty similar to Smash 4 making room for more time to add various modes and extras. For all of Brawl's annoyances in its base mechanics as far as content goes I still think it was the best Smash Bros we've seen. Not having to make two games at once and the possibility to reuse assets from Smash 4 could make a bit difference. 

 

I also wonder if Nintendo is going into this with DLC in mind. I know DLC and fighting games can be "icky" but if it meant us getting the game a lot sooner I could see Nintendo planning the roster size assuming a decent chunk would be DLC. Nothing like on-disc DLC mind you, but get the game in people's hands as soon as possible then continue to add content via DLC. So maybe even a smaller initial roster than Smash 4 but eventually becoming even bigger than Smash 4. Of course if they did something like that they would have to change the payment model, I don't see people spending $5 per characters if there is like 20 DLC characters or something. 

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1 minute ago, Carl321 said:

One of my hopes for this game are that they get off their rear ends and actually develop SKINS for Samus. As nice as the alt colors are I would really love for them to make the Light Suit, Dark Suit, PED, Fusion Suit, etc. as accurate models. The tech is definitely there and modders have been doing it for ages. I also hope Samus isn't based on the Other M design but the Prime 4 design. I am, of course, banking on at least a trailer or screenshot of Prime 4 at E3 so we should at least know what she'll look like by the time Smash launches. We'll have to see.

Not sure how the timing will be with MP4 for it to have any content in Smash Switch, but if it doesn't have any (MP3 still got the short end of the stick apart from the Dark Samus assist trophy after all), then I would like to have the Samus Returns design of Aran over keeping Other M as a staple. Same for Ridley with the MSR version regardless of his role in the game. Even Protues Ridley as a boss/stage enemy would be more salvageable than the Pyrosphere clone.

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1 minute ago, Ridley Prime said:

Not sure how the timing will be with MP4 for it to have any content in Smash Switch, but if it doesn't have any (MP3 still got the short end of the stick apart from the Dark Samus assist trophy after all), then I would like to have the Samus Returns design of Aran over keeping Other M as a staple. Same for Ridley with the MSR version regardless of his role in the game. Even Protues Ridley as a boss/stage enemy would be more salvageable than the Pyrosphere clone.

Gosh I hope I don't have to see Swole Ridley for a long time

 

Also yknow what would be nice? A Metroid Stage that ISN'T drowning everyone in stage hazards. I mean, I like the Final Destination thing they enabled for all stages but I'm beginning to suspect people who haven't played Metroid are getting the idea that everything everywhere is lava.

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2 minutes ago, Carl321 said:

One of my hopes for this game are that they get off their rear ends and actually develop SKINS for Samus. As nice as the alt colors are I would really love for them to make the Light Suit, Dark Suit, PED, Fusion Suit, etc. as accurate models. The tech is definitely there and modders have been doing it for ages. I also hope Samus isn't based on the Other M design but the Prime 4 design. I am, of course, banking on at least a trailer or screenshot of Prime 4 at E3 so we should at least know what she'll look like by the time Smash launches. We'll have to see.

I would say Samus will at least look like her Samus Returns design.

But yeah, I want skins for characters too.  I don't know if I'd expect them to make all of Samus's suits model-accurate (though that would be nice), but I'd at least like the Fusion Suit to be model-accurate since that is her "latest" appearance timeline-wise.

Other:
Ike - PoR Ranger.  The design that was used in Brawl.  They could also give him his PoR Lord class or his RD-Vanguard class, but having at least his Ranger class would be nice.
 

Spoiler

PoR Lord:
File:Ike (Lord).png

RD Vanguard:
File:Full Portrait Ike (Vanguard Legend).png


Marth - Classic Boxart design.  Mostly as a goof/retro throwback.
 

Spoiler

File:FE1 Box Art.png


Bowser - Dry Bowser, or Husbando Bowser.
Ganondorf - Ocarina of Time Ganondorf.  As a small detail, they could include a short-hair (pre-timeskip) and long-hair (post-timeskip) variant.  What are they going to do with Ganondorf's design anyway, since he wasn't in BotW?
Wolf (if he returns) - "Classic" variant.  Could be Star Fox 64 or Star Fox 2.  Or, I guess at this point his Star Fox Zero design would be pretty close to 64 too.

Spoiler

Image result for wolf star fox 2

latest?cb=20160407215518


Wii Fit Trainer - Wii Fit U variants.
 

Spoiler

large.jpg


Captain Falcon - SNES art variant

Spoiler

2430702-captainfalconjpg.jpg


Mario and Peach also have more options from Odyssey, so take your pick there.

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6 hours ago, IU said:

I think they should regulate more characters to being alts much like they did with the Koopalings and Alph for Bowser Jr. and Olimar respectively. I would be fine with Classic Link being accessible off of BOTW Link much like how I hope they make Zero Suit Samus accessible off of Samus. I don't think these characters need more than one roster slot.

Here's the thing with that, though: Bowser, Jr. and the Koopalings were all the exact same character in terms of balance and mechanics.  Alph had no gameplay differences from Olimar.  Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, and Lucina were all planned to be alt costumes for Mario, Pit, and Marth, respectively, but weren't because Sakurai decided to balance them differently, thus making them mechanically different.  It would get really confusing if you had some spots like Bowser, Jr./Koopalings, Olimar/Alph, and all the male/female options having completely different character models play identically and others where the alts are mechanically different (or, in the Samus/ZSS case that you're suggesting, completely different characters altogether).

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On 3/10/2018 at 4:45 AM, XLW said:

After Despair And Hope from Xenoblade 2 

Awakening from Xenoblade 2 
Battle!! from Xenoblade 2

Bringer of Chaos! Ultimate (Zeke Battle) from Xenoblade 2 

Clashing Blades from Xenoblade 2 
Counterattack from Xenoblade 2 

Drifting Soul from Xenoblade 2 

Exploration from Xenoblade 2  

Gormott and its night version from Xenoblade 2 
Incoming! from Xenoblade 2 
Monster Surprised You from Xenoblade 2

Mor Ardain and its night version from Xenoblade 2 

Ophion from Xenoblade 2
Still, Move Forward! from Xenoblade 2 
You Will Recall Our Names from Xenoblade 2 

 

 

Just got done playing a bit of XBC2 and I came back to add some music stuff to the one addition idea I had fleshed out which was the addition of Rex... only to see you listed a bunch of the same tracks I would have chosen and then some!  Honestly, much of this list should be pared down but the OST in the game has so many tracks that would work well in Smash that it's tough to make those cuts, lol.  Though I'd also add in the Giga Rosa Theme too.

 

Like, I saw Drifting Soul on your list and I was like, ehhhh, that could probably be cut.  But then I remember some vocal tracks in past Smash games that oddly seemed to fight the fray like Calling to the Night from the Shadow Moses stage in Brawl. 

 

Really pulling for Zeke's theme though, that's just an awesome theme to fight to.

Edited by Kezay
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8 hours ago, Kezay said:

 

Just got done playing a bit of XBC2 and I came back to add some music stuff to the one addition idea I had fleshed out which was the addition of Rex... only to see you listed a bunch of the same tracks I would have chosen and then some!  Honestly, much of this list should be pared down but the OST in the game has so many tracks that would work well in Smash that it's tough to make those cuts, lol.  Though I'd also add in the Giga Rosa Theme too.

 

Like, I saw Drifting Soul on your list and I was like, ehhhh, that could probably be cut.  But then I remember some vocal tracks in past Smash games that oddly seemed to fight the fray like Calling to the Night from the Shadow Moses stage in Brawl. 

 

Really pulling for Zeke's theme though, that's just an awesome theme to fight to.

Instrumentals work too. His World got that treatment, too, if I remember. They’d probably give Drifting Soul a remix. 

 

I love Giga Rosa’s theme too.

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Famicom Detective Club music is technically already in Smash, but through the means of that one Famicom medley that used like a few seconds of the opening theme. I know that hardly even counts, but it is a fun fact to bring up.

 

I'm not sure I feel the same way about more music from it needing to get in, but it's nice to see appreciation for it since I'm a fan of the game as well.

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I know a lot of people hate stage hazards but I’d like a BotW stage with Guardians or Guardian turrets in it that can be destroyed (or the Divine Beasts come by after a bit and take them out). Then after a certain time the Blood Moon rises and they get repaired and attack again. 

 

Even if they were only on far ends of the stage and didn’t activate until someone came close. Basically keeping the action in the middle lest you a activate a Guardian that starts laser blasting you if you stray close to the edge. 

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On 3/11/2018 at 4:20 PM, KefkaFFVI said:

If you're expecting 70 characters, you seriously need to temper expectations. There's no way the Smash game with the shortest development time will correspondingly have the largest increase in roster.

But didn't the development time between the first Smash and Melee around 18-24 months? I know that means nothing with the roster we got in the end comparing the roster from Sm4sh, if Nintendo and Sakurai are serious releasing this most likely new Smash game in 2018. I think they can manage releasing the new game if they use the same engine from Sm4sh, tweak the the base chars without the DLC, I can see them releasing in time or....They go the model Igneous mentioned with the smaller roster of the initial Sm4sh and slowly release characters, you'll pay for or go the Splatoon and ARMS add them in free or the content is free for a limited time and then you eventually will pay for them.

 

Little complicate wrap your head around the free content but I'm up paying little by little.

On 3/11/2018 at 7:14 PM, KefkaFFVI said:

I'd personally like to see Ganondorf use his Hyrule Warriors design. Not only is it great, but it meshes well with Breath of the Wild's cel-shadiness. 

Ganondorf in HW is cel-shaded? I'll admit he is the greatest looking Ganondorf but he's not cel-shaded.

15 minutes ago, purple_beard said:

 

 

Smash spitting that hot fire...   Just a interesting discussion of the fire ball and the name and logo in flames as well throughout the entire series of the games.

The only thing the whole thing off is the release date of this new Smash releasing this year, other than that cool catch with the fire. The fire always been there and now we've come full circle.

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