Zelda: Tears of the Spoiled - A thread where any discussion is allowed

[DLurkster]

6 hours ago, EH_STEVE said:

Re: Timeline - I'm sort of on the side that BotW and TotK are almost reboots of the series and not part of the traditional, pre-existing timelines.

 

That or it's a sort of Flashpoint, convergence sort of thing where it almost takes some events from some games and converges them into a singular timeline. Sort of how there's reference to the Twilight Realm and Rito existing together.

Basically what you are describing is called a, 'Dragonbreak'.

 

It's where events that happened in another timeline converge at one point. So yeah, that is why there's so much reference to past Zelda games with location/characters in the BotW and TotK games. From the like of ALttp, Link's Awakening, TP, MM, WW, Etc.

 

That is the easiest explanation to go to instead of picking a timeline where Botw and TotK take place. I was always leaning on the downfall timeline it just made since for one reason, the decline of Hyrule for BotW and all. So I hear Imprisoning War, yes, downfall timeline yes. But it's to convenient to use that name again and just call it that so in this game they somewhat repurposed and I don't mind and I do agree to some extent a, 'Dragonbreak' occurred for sure now.

Edited July 25 by DLurkster

[DLurkster]

On 7/19/2023 at 2:26 PM, Spring said:

i beat totk! my finishing percentage was 77.03%! i did all the shrines and got most of the sages will, but i'm missing a bunch of side stuff which is nice so i'll have some other stuff to do later  

 

i think this game is a 9/10 (same rating for botw, really, but for different reasons) but i can't help feeling wildly underwhelmed for the story. didn't they say this would be the darkest zelda yet?? this game isn't even as dark as the game that came directly before it!

 

things that bothered me in no particular order:

  Reveal hidden contents

no grey morality for Ganon, he is literally just a big dude that is Evil for the sake of being Evil. there was so much that could have been expounded upon here i feel like we lost what could have been the most interesting Ganon just for them to fall back on a dude who hates hyrule for no reason. how about a man who is fed up with this cycle of birth and death and rebirth? a man who had been used by hyrule, or had lost a loved one due to not having enough power? how about a man who was forced out of the gerudo due to being foreseen as an agent of evil? what if Rauru wasn't just a Perfect King with No Flaws Whatsoever and actually did something to incur Ganon's wrath? they're all so flat just to fit their archetypes but WHY?? we already knew the current hyrule had plenty of things wrong with it underneath the surface, why not EXPAND that idea to give us something to hold onto other than 'these guys are good and never make mistakes'?

 

nothing happens to ANYONE you're involved with, no one experiences any real lasting hardship and most of all: no one dies AT ALL except for Sonia?! i hesitate to even say Rauru 'died' bc of the way he sacrificed himself.  Like none of these characters feel like they go through any amount of growth (except Tulin mostly and Sidon, a little) like they had to in BotW, they are just There for the sake of helping Link, which, by the way, they BARELY do. Even at the end fight, your sage friends are there for like, 2 minutes of Hyrule Warriors Time and a few minutes of fighting Ganon then we shoot into the sky and that's it. Their powers are not even needed, even in a plot sense. Mineru goes through negative growth imo, bc we learn so little about her by the time she actually passes on in the post-credits scene, I felt nothing at all for her.  Also why is Tulin even here? I love him, but we already had a character who was in place to be a sage, so why was it not Teba?? I could see if it was to emphasize the 'up and coming generation', but Mineru was definitely an adult and at this point even Link would be like in his mid-twenties, so why can't it be the dad? At least he could have had an interesting reaction to having to be a sage as well as a village leader and father.

 

even the most touching and gut-wrenching of plot points (Zelda becoming an immortal dragon) has NO consequences in the end. not to mention, even once some people KNOW that she's become an immortal dragon and thus cannot (just kidding tho) be turned back, no one is even grieving or seems to care at all!? i expected Purah to at least shed a tear over the idea of NEVER SEEING ZELDA AGAIN but i guess the looming threat of a dude chilling underground was more pressing? i can understand Link not showing any emotion over this, that's literally part of his character, but you can't tell me even Paya wouldn't have cried over the loss of the princess. 

 

also disappointed we completely avoided the idea of Link actually losing his arm and thus having any real effect on his life whatsoever. perhaps it would have been just TOO bold to have our hero actually be disabled after the end fight and having to live his life with real consequences of the world around him? maybe i was just expecting too much out of nintendo? 

 

also WHO the hell was Rauru and Sonia's child????? they make no mention of having children at all, which is not only a glaring plot hole (Zelda HAS to be a direct bloodline relative of them as mentioned in the plot by them based on her powers) but a complete missed opportunity to show any amount of guts for this plot as a whole. Rauru sacrifices himself with NO qualms whatsoever once Sonia dies (implying to me they definitely did not have any kids), but what if he was a man who had to choose between being there for his undoubtedly young child or saving his kingdom by sacrificing himself (now leaving his child parentless)? Begging the sages to take care of the baby, perhaps? Zelda, before turning into a dragon, ensuring the child that they were loved and are destined for great things like their parents? Those monuments in the sky were written by someone close to the royal family and they knew Zelda at the time, what if those were written by the child instead? 

 

I know people have complained about how BotW seems almost entirely disconnected from TotK and while I can agree somewhat, I'm mostly disappointed that the world as a whole doesn't seem to have grown at all since then. At least 5 years have passed, we have no new towns/villages, even the current towns haven't grown at all save for Hateno getting like, two new buildings? Not even any new encampments really? I hesitate to even call Lookout Landing a new town because of how lifeless and small it is and TEMPORARY above all else. Like they haven't even restored any of Hyrule Castle Town yet, in FIVE YEARS?? Like what was everyone doing?  

 

AND WHERE IS KASS?? THE MAN IS A FATHER OF 5, IS HE A DEADBEAT?? Where would he have even GONE?

 

and do not even get me STARTED on how bland the depths ended up being. Why is there like, no distinction anywhere in the depths for where you might be?? it all looks EXACTLY the same??????????? other than a few lava falls indicating where hot springs should be? its extremely telling that unless I'm looking at a map, I would have no idea where I am underground ever, to me that is bad design. The overworld is so vast and different looking, there are landmarks EVERYWHERE, you're telling me the Zonai didn't need landmarks around here to get around with? The environment above doesn't affect how it looks down here? For gods sake, its not even COLD around the Hebra area, like what was the point of making it fit the size of the overworld if they weren't going to do anything with it? They made a glowing armor set as if brightbloom seeds aren't an invasive species on the surface, as if I'd ever find any use of it at all. It just feels like none of it is fully realized. 

 

ARRGGHHHH i could go on for hours!! There are SO many touching scenes, I teared up at many points of dialogue but it all feels so SAFE compared to BotW!! There's no death, destruction, grieving, pain, how could anyone consider this the darkest Zelda game?! I cried when Yona chastised Sidon for keeping her at a distance for fear of losing another one he loves, but he DOESN'T lose another one he loves! We're supposed to be fighting so hard to save this country, but it doesn't even feel like its in danger of anything, because there's nothing happening to anyone! part of the feeling of 'winning' in BotW was having the Beasts fire a fucking laser at the castle weakening C. Ganon and thus feeling like we're holding him back, together, as a country. but when we beat the bosses of TotK, what is stopping him from just doing it again? He literally just lets us hang out until we drop into the hole to stop him for good! I would have loved if near the end the game actually gave me some urgency by covering the land in more gloom, finding monsters attacking town, seeing the occasional boss in the wilderness to show that he was getting desperate in some way to keep us away. Like how there used to be a fuckton of guardians in the castle and around it, but there's just no looming threat from Ganon. And going back to what I said before, I had no qualms about just fucking him up either, because he is evil just for the sake of it. he doesn't even have any attachment to his own people, imagine if he tried to get Riju on his side by telling her about his past or something....ugh. 

 

this post ended up very long, to anyone who read it all: i'm sorry, i just have a deep appreciation for BotW and TotK and feel like the lack of a clear story and character depth really pulled this game back from being what it could have been  in terms of gameplay i don't think i could call TotK anything but a direct improvement, but in terms of story........well. 

 

i had a lot of fun with it and still am, but i think my score might just drop as time goes on simply because of my disappointment lol

I saw your tweet for this the other day. I have been meaning respond to this but as you said it was a long read and I wanted to take the time to see more what you are getting at with you TotK experience.

 

I feel with how the development team were trying to sell this game, has dungeons we used to love and (It sort does not but yeah these are dungeons this time) the story is the darkest it every been in  a Zelda game. No, the only thing dark about this game outside the depths (will get to in a minute) Ganondorf's Gloom and bring some returning enemies from past Zelda title and makes the one that were already in the previous strong with attack horns. Yeah, once I saw that scene of Ganondorf swearing fealty to Rauru. (this is OOT all over again, there's no reason for the hostile take over, WW Ganondorf is still the best storied Ganondorf in the Zelda franchise, there was a reason why he covet Hyrule) I pretty much sat back and watched how things were gonna unfold bit sort of knew where it was going outside the dragon in the end, that was cool.

 

As for how Zelda exists, (outside that 2 Zelda were present at a certain time) with Sonia or Rauru probably not having a child. Tho, not implied and that there has to be a child for Zelda exist, go back in time and turn into a dragon, while another version lives of her lives during the BotW times. Lazy writing, why have the queen mention at the start of the memories, I sense a blood link (which seem obvious) but never explain, I have a daughter you age Zelda and go from there. It's not like they expect the audience to forget but I think they just didn't to fill in such a glaring detail in how the events of this game goes. If they don't care neither do I and will focus on what I enjoyed the most in this game because there's a to like even if you liked BotW just a little, you might like TotK a little more.

 

Yeah, that's that.

[purple_beard]

9 hours ago, EH_STEVE said:

I found him once, then he fucked off somewhere and I couldn't figure out where. So I just made it my mission to get the Lost Woods ASAP.

You know what?  The m*f*r was in Csstle/Hyrule Town!  I went to the spot where he is supposed to show up after the forest meeting.   I was like S.O.B ..

 

Took care of business in a few spots and now at the beginning of the Desert storm.

[purple_beard]

Man....couldn't figure out 4th light in desert temple....watched a video on yt....first part is the one I missed....and I was damn...at the solution.  

 

****

 

beat boss.... cool fight.... only thing I found annoying is how the stage lighting, and especially when you enter stage 2 of the fight, could drown out locating the boss....  I was constantly spinning around trying to locate her.

Edited August 4 by purple_beard

[purple_beard]

 

 

Hmm interesting,  I'd figure they'd milk it...  and to that end, why wait on the amiibos then?

[EH_STEVE]

Huh... Though tbh, I'm unsure what the DLC would be given it's a follow up to BotW and seems things were relatively at peace between the two, and TotK has decently firm end to it.

[DLurkster]

Honestly not surprised and I am not even thinking, 'oh this game sold so much, they'd be crazy not to sell DLC'.

 

Not only am I with Steve, the ending is pretty definitive but this game has so much content, why do we need more to do in this world?!?

 

So when you look at TotK from a gameplay world and story perspective, it's just too grand and complete to do anything else, imo.

 

Tho, saying all of that I wouldn't mind DLC but I had a feeling with what I said that just wasn't happening, no matter how much money they will get.

 

Sometimes, you gotta stick to the principles you put out there and be fine with the fact, that TotK is a complete package and that is it.

 

Plus, they said for us to look forward to even bigger adventures in the world of Zelda. They may not have any ideas no but with how much time it took to get TotK out they pull off another amazing game with the grandest of ideas.

[EH_STEVE]

It's been a while, was a "Master Mode" already included in the standard TotK?

That's the only thing I can think of, adding something similar to BotW with a new difficulty, something to power up Master Sword, and I mean they COULD do something with powering up the Sages, buuuuut where they're all still alive they can't really do the Ballad like they did with Kass in BotW.

[DLurkster]

20 minutes ago, EH_STEVE said:

It's been a while, was a "Master Mode" already included in the standard TotK?

That's the only thing I can think of, adding something similar to BotW with a new difficulty, something to power up Master Sword, and I mean they COULD do something with powering up the Sages, buuuuut where they're all still alive they can't really do the Ballad like they did with Kass in BotW.

Did a quick check, it was a part of the expansion pack in BotW but none on TotK.

 

Unless, I am wrong here; to some isn't the depths like a built in difficulty mode?

 

I'm not against any new content in any form even difficulty but as you said things to extent on TotK is wrapped up in bow tho some plotpoints in specific areas have some explaining to do and no amount content can explain the discrepancies in this game.

[DLurkster]

Like I was hinting at with the discrepancies. I would very much like a Ganondorf back story for DLC, please? (They gave Cia a backstory DLC in the first Hyrule Warriors game, I like the that game but no offense if that game can't get backstory DLC, TotK is a no brainer)

 

The vid just points out there might be some confusion around the interview but don't exactly count out DLC for TotK.

Edited September 6 by DLurkster

[Spring]

personally i'd be super disappointed if i actually believed they weren't going to make DLC for TOTK, but nintendo has a history of straight up lying like, all the time, so i really take it with a grain of salt

 

the king and queen had no descendants, we have no idea who the person close to the royal family was that made all those slabs, the story was lackluster, and despite adding in numerous old sages we learn literally nothing of them despite them caring enough to actually fully model most of their heads and faces. the depths are empty and covered in ruins yet there's no story to any of it.

 

the game isn't lacking in fun, sure, but i refuse to believe they ACTUALLY added all that they wanted to to this game. but, if they're actually telling the truth for once and don't plan on making any DLC, i will actually be firmly disappointed. the game could use some more oomph, even if they didn't want to add anything new to the gameplay like they did for BOTW's DLC.

[DLurkster]

@Spring: You are not wrong about what needs to be fleshed, I commented on your feeling about the discrepancies in the story in TotK.

 

I agree but as you said it is a fun game and I believe that was just enough for me no matter what Nintendo say they may or may not provide DLC.

 

So for me whatever happens, happens.

[DLurkster]

On the MyNintendo redeem smartphone/PC wallpaper, they have one of these as what you can redeem as a wallpaper. (My go to place for my wallpaper background for my phone homescreen and lock screen. I change it every month because sometimes their wallpaper show the current month, it usually highlight that game release date)

 

No, no, no Link! You are doing it all wrong! You must sacrifice the Koroks to the flames not sit by them by a campfire.