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DISCLAIMER: This is a reproduction of a thread on NS2, which has long since been lost to the flow of time. I am re-posting it here for archival purposes only, as it is the origin of an inside joke that few people would otherwise understand. The opinions expressed in this thread are solely those of the people being quoted, and do not reflect the views of N4A or any of its affiliates. Additionally, N4A is not responsible for any brain damage caused by prolonged exposure to this thread. Since I'm shit at editing, I'll just tag each post by putting the person's name in front of it. The_Ultimate_Mario_Fan: @DLurkster: The_Ultimate_Mario_Fan: @DLurkster: @Youngster Joey: @Carl321: @Chrom: @K The_Ultimate_Mario_Fan (from here on out referred to as TUMF): Sorry, but Romans ARE Italians. There's a reason Rome is known as "The Eternal City." Just because we call Rome part of Italy now doesn't mean Rome can't be considered Italian history as well. "Felicità" means "happiness" in Italian, so it does seem they are decidedly focusing on Italian themes, even if in ostensibly minor ways. I hope they continue to inject more of this culture into the game. Also, "if" in Italian is "se." I wonder if that means anything.... (SE.... Square Enix? :o) @K: Except you used the word culture not history, Roman culture is not italian culture. And no Romans are not italians. TUMF: No, it is, at least in a matter of speaking. It isn't current Italian culture, no, but historically Rome is inextricably tied with Italian history and its culture. Think of Rome as the Proto-Italy. And that second sentence is almost as dense as saying New Yorkers aren't Americans. @Chrom: The first two Fire Emblem games on the GBA also had some minor Italian flavor, for what it's worth. For example, there's a territory called Tuscany and an entire region named after Etruria. In fact, the whole continent of Elibe (the setting of the aforementioned games) is even shaped like Europe, so those games are rife with a ton of similar European references, although none as blatant as the Mouth of Truth monster. @K: That's not what your original sentence meant though, what you're saying now is that it's tied to Roman culture, which is true, but it's tied because roman artifacts an and ruins are in Italy and they have based their daily lives around those things. To say Roman culture is Italian culture is a fallacy. And Rome is in no way a Proto-Italy. Only if New Yorkers lived thousands of years ago and had been conquered a dozen or so times. Making that comparison is dense. TUMF: Uh dude, yes it is. "Proto" means "earliest" or "ancestral" and Rome indeed far predates the Italy as the way we know it today. Also, numerous Roman customs carried over into the Italian way of life. The Mouth of Truth has since been adopted as a quintessential part of Italian cultural history as well. So many aspects of Rome have been enmeshed with the Italians that you can't just cleanly separate them like that, especially considering that Rome hasn't exactly changed locations. And let me just make sure: Are you aware that Romans still exist? Yes? Then you'll see how silly you sound. Ancient Romans on the other hand technically aren't Italian because Italy didn't exist yet. However, it isn't a stretch to call these Romans a part of Italian history, as without Rome, the Italy we know today basically wouldn't exist. Now let's please get back on topic. @K: Clearly you don't get how proto is used, just because they were a civilization that existed in the same space as the current italy and borrowed some customs doesn't mean they were Proto-Italians, they were completely different culturally. And I didn't say you couldn't say that there are parts of Italian culture tied to Roman culture I said that Italian Culture is not Roman culture. You know I was talking about Ancient Romans, or did you not read when I was talking about thousands of years ago. You even saying something like that just makes you seem spiteful. And I said from the beginning that I wasn't arguing that Romans weren't part of Italian history, I've been arguing your use of the word culture this whole time and yet you seem to not get that. TUMF: That's what I'm trying to get through to you: Romans were not "completely" different culturally--which also depends on what era of Italy you are drawing a comparison with--and were the same geographically. "Proto" can indeed be used here. Your point of contention was that the Mouth of Truth is not Italian, which simply isn't true--it is both Italian AND Roman. I frankly found it disrespectful that you would deny this artifact is in any way Italian when it has resided in Italy for centuries (millennia geographically), regardless of its origin, but to each his own. Italian is one of the few things I take very seriously around here and if I have learned anything from this prattle, it's that you're exceedingly persnickety when it comes to subjective semantics. For the record, I never said nor meant that Italian culture was the same as Ancient Roman culture. @K: So you would call Roman Armor Italian Armor as well? America isn't completely culturally different from Rome or Japan or Irish. There isn't a culture out there that doesn't take some small things from another, but if you're gonna tell me that Italian culture is even close to what Roman culture was then you're sadly misinformed. You know arguing semantics is not an insult right? You said things that were incorrect and now your saying that's not what you meant? @Iridium: This would almost be a good comparison if you'd at least said "New Yorkers aren't English", considering that that's far closer to what you're trying to compare it to. They were English at one point. Aspects of English culture carried into their society. That doesn't make them the successor to England or Modern Englishmen or anything like that. English history/culture/society, for the most part, is not the history/culture/society of New York. @Malkon: TUMF: It wasn't intended to be an insult, it was a tired statement. And please point out where I say the Italian and Ancient Roman cultures are the same, because I never did. However, I cannot agree that Ancient Rome, and especially Rome, shares no relation with Italy or its history and culture. The Romans and Ancient Romans are different, my friend. If you want to trade blows, take it to PMs. In the interest of conserving space, I'm cutting it off here at the end of page 1. Pages 2 and 3 will be up sometime after dinner.